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Will this work with Death Shriek

TinTip

Skeleton
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
52
so going over the latest faq i noticed this
Q: If a Tomb Banshee wishes to use her Ghostly Howl attack in close
combat, does this have to be targeted against an enemy unit that the
Tomb Banshee model is in base contact with? (p31)
A: Yes.

the key part i noticed was that it stated that the attack was being used in close combat.

Then i read this in the army book under red fury
"For each unsaved Wound that the Vampire causes in close
combat, it can immediately make a further Attack."

As the ghostly howl works effectively like the Death Shriek
since both are referring to attacks in close combat, not the Close Combat Phase specifically. does that mean if i gave a lord the Skabscrath, the Death Shriek attacks he is now granted will be effected by Red Fury

I realize that these attack would take place in the shooting phase and thus not count towards CR.
 

Melle

Sir Larpsalot, champion of larpers
True Blood
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
1,148
you said it. close combat takes place in combat phase.
shriek and howl in shooting face, so no.
the faq only refers to that you can use the shriek/howl EVEN if you are in closecombat. in the shooting face, you use it. no benefits from this in the coming close combat phase.

not many shooting attacks can be used when locked im close combat. this is what faq clarifies.
hope this helps
 

TinTip

Skeleton
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
52
Death Shriek is not a shooting attack, its a special attack that takes place in the shooting phase.

maybe i should try and clear up my understanding.

Red Fury is only concerned with wounds dealt from close combat, not in the Close Combat Phase
per the FAQ, while done in the shooting phase, ghostly howl/Death shriek are done in close combat
 

Melle

Sir Larpsalot, champion of larpers
True Blood
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
1,148
yes a special attack taking place in the SHOOTING PHASE
this is the 3rd thread this week with various interpretation on the shriek/howl.
this is also the most farfetched imo.

so to clear up my last sentence, where i think you misinterpreted me.

'Not many RANGED attacks can be used when locked in close combat....etc etc '

you dont benefit with red fury from shriek/howl. period.
 

TinTip

Skeleton
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
52
Melle said:
'Not many RANGED attacks can be used when locked in close combat....etc etc '

you dont benefit with red fury from shriek/howl. period.

Exactly, the Death Shriek is being used in close combat. Its not a close combat attack, but it is an attack done in close combat.

The issue is that red fury doesnt state it only applies to attacks done in the close combat phase.

I just dont see any RAW that prevents this, if you can find something other than 'just no' please point them out.
 

ATP485

Ghoul
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
178
Suppose it did work as you described it and you cause 4 unsaved wounds with the death shriek attack in the shooting phase while locked in cc. What now? Do you get 4 more death shrieks?
 

bigbadbat

Harbinger of Dandelions
True Blood
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
1,244
Problem is...
It says "for each unsaved wound caused in close combat, it can immediately make a further attack." Immediately refers to immediately.
So these unsaved wounds from Skabscrath would not turn in to additional attacks in the close combat phase as they happened in the shooting phase. So immediately doesn't work.

Now if you're referring to another Death Shriek from Skabscrath, IDK.
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
875
bigbadbat said:
Problem is...
It says "for each unsaved wound caused in close combat, it can immediately make a further attack." Immediately refers to immediately.
So these unsaved wounds from Skabscrath would not turn in to additional attacks in the close combat phase as they happened in the shooting phase. So immediately doesn't work.

What if they turned into additional attacks in the shooting phase? ;)
 

eggsPR

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
1,139
1 shriek turns into 4 shrieks... Auto-delete the unit!!! That would be cool, but alas lol!!
 

bigbadbat

Harbinger of Dandelions
True Blood
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
1,244
I know!
This, Vipoid, is an actual RAW loophole.
As written, as long as you are causing unsaved wounds from Skabscrath's death shriek, you would be entitled to one more shriek as RF attacks cannot generate more attacks per the rule.. RAW of course.
Without a faq, again, you may run into some opposition.
 

Omnichron

Zombie
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
10
You're reading it wrong. The sword has the ability to do a shooting attack (in shooting phase) while the vampire is in combat. Is it close combat? No, so no red fury.

I mean, it would be the same as to claim that you get to use red fury as you managed to cast curse of the years on a unit while you are engaged in close combat...

The intention of the shriek and red fury are obvious.
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
875
Omnichron said:
You're reading it wrong. The sword has the ability to do a shooting attack (in shooting phase) while the vampire is in combat. Is it close combat? No, so no red fury.

It isn't a shooting attack - it's a special attack.

And, it is a special attack that can be used in close combat.

Omnichron said:
I mean, it would be the same as to claim that you get to use red fury as you managed to cast curse of the years on a unit while you are engaged in close combat...

Curse of years is a spell - not an attack.

Death Shriek is an attack. And, RAW, can work with red fury if you use it whilst in close combat.

Omnichron said:
The intention of the shriek and red fury are obvious.

Indeed. It's just that the actual rules they wrote say otherwise. :tongue:


I should probably point out that I wouldn't advocate actually doing this (not least because the result will probably involve being force-fed a Terrorgheist). However, I just find it amusing when RAW oversights like this are found.
 

Randar

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
290
Sounds legal to me! Rules from Sword and add rules from RF i see nothing wrong here scream does 4 wounds vamp should be able to start attacking during shooting phase for 4 more attacks, No extra screams since it is a special attack but caused wounds therefore extra attacks. xD RAW would support this i think.
 

Omnichron

Zombie
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
10
@Vipoid: Alright, to write it more clearly. It's a special attack, as you say. It happens in the shooting phase, and it's distributed as shooting. Just as you say, the Curse of the years is in the magic phase, and follows the rules of magic. You can be just as much in close combat and do wounds with several things, but you still wouldn't gain any extra attacks with red fury.

Does Ghostly Howl happen in close combat? No. Can you do it while you are in close combat? Yes.
Does Curse of the years happen in close combat? No. Can you do it while you are in close combat? Yes.
Does Red Fury happen in close combat? YES!

Claiming the red fury on ghostly attacks based on a somewhat poorly written Q&A (Not even errata of rules) is not even grasping at straws, it's grasping at something non-existant... And if someone came up with that FAQ and stubbornly claimed to get it, I'd still say no: It says a Banshees ghostly howl so... :tongue:

Finally, I would like to add that it's the sword that has the howl ability, not the vampire. The sword doesn't have red fury.
 

bigbadbat

Harbinger of Dandelions
True Blood
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
1,244
Uh oh. I smell another 5 page thread that goes nowhere...
RAW, it's legal. Sure there's a bit of rules lawyering involved, but it holds water.

Curse of years argument is null. As Cupid stated earlier, it's a spell, not an "attack".
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
875
Omnichron said:
@Vipoid: Alright, to write it more clearly. It's a special attack, as you say. It happens in the shooting phase, and it's distributed as shooting. Just as you say, the Curse of the years is in the magic phase, and follows the rules of magic. You can be just as much in close combat and do wounds with several things, but you still wouldn't gain any extra attacks with red fury.

Red fury does not specify a phase.

The Vampire simply has to cause wounds whilst he's in close combat - which is exactly what the scream can do.

Here's the thing, RF lets you make an additional attack. So, even if curse of years triggered it, it's not an attack, so you can't make additional attacks. On the other hand, the scream is an attack. A special attack, but an attack nevertheless.

Omnichron said:
Does Ghostly Howl happen in close combat? No. Can you do it while you are in close combat? Yes.
Does Curse of the years happen in close combat? No. Can you do it while you are in close combat? Yes.
Does Red Fury happen in close combat? YES!

The Vampire is in combat, and causing unsaved wounds. That's all that's required to activate red fury.

Omnichron said:
Claiming the red fury on ghostly attacks based on a somewhat poorly written Q&A (Not even errata of rules) is not even grasping at straws, it's grasping at something non-existant... And if someone came up with that FAQ and stubbornly claimed to get it, I'd still say no: It says a Banshees ghostly howl so... :tongue:

I don't need to grasp at straws - it's there in black and white. :tongue:

Also, what are you talking about with regard to the banshee's ghostly howl ability in the faq? I'm not sure what it is you're referring to.

Omnichron said:
Finally, I would like to add that it's the sword that has the howl ability, not the vampire. The sword doesn't have red fury.

Skabscrath - "The bearer of Skabscrath gains the Death Shriek special rule." :twisted:


Again, this isn't something I'd be inclined to try. I just believe that it is legal within the letter (if not the spirit) of the rules.
 

Omnichron

Zombie
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
10
So, you mean that any wounds the vampire does in any phase of the game is affected by red fury, as long as he is engaged in close combat... That's wrong.

Close Combat is a phase. Red fury specifices close combat. Shooting is a phase. Ghostly howl happens in the shooting phase, not close combat phase... it specifices it in the rule. The FAQ that the OP speaks about, mentions "in close combat" in the Q&A.

Anyways, you seem set in your mind about the ghostly howl. I read it differently RAW.
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
875
Omnichron said:
So, you mean that any wounds the vampire does in any phase of the game is affected by red fury, as long as he is engaged in close combat... That's wrong.

Close Combat is a phase. Red fury specifices close combat. Shooting is a phase. Ghostly howl happens in the shooting phase, not close combat phase... it specifices it in the rule. The FAQ that the OP speaks about, mentions "in close combat" in the Q&A.

So, if a unit is engaged in close combat, I can shoot it as normal in the shooting phase?
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
875
My point is, close combat isn't just a phase.

It must also continue to exist outside of the close combat phase, otherwise a unit couldn't be locked in close combat.

So, a vampire can still be in close combat with a unit (for the purposes of red fury), even though it isn't the close combat phase.
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
6,640
If I let you use this will you let me use my breathweapon red fury wall of fire combo?
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
875
Johnny-Crass said:
If I let you use this will you let me use my breathweapon red fury wall of fire combo?

Sure - at least you can only use a breath weapon once per game. :tongue:
 

Johnny-Crass

Vampire Ancient
True Blood
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
6,640
Not with transformation abuse ;). And 2D6 hits turning into another 2D6 per wound it does is just brilliant
 

Vipoid

Necromancer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
875
Johnny-Crass said:
Not with transformation abuse ;). And 2D6 hits turning into another 2D6 per wound it does is just brilliant

Ah, cunning.

Although, I think I'd be more worried about red fury, combined with 4d6 S7 attacks from the Mountain Chimera. :|
 
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