Woman found with multiple skeletons she used for sex.

[Adam_Barrow]

Here's one of the articles:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235933/Swedish-woman-used-SKELETONS-sex-acts--police-100-body-parts-flat.html

My questions are, 1. Do any forum members from Sweden have details from local news that I can't seem to find on the internet. For example, has her name been released there? And 2. Looking at all the details that have been released, is this woman a criminal? Let's break it down.

All human remains were purchased legally from internet educational merchandise suppliers. There is no evidence of graverobbing or murder.

For there to be a crime, there has to be somebody who's rights are infringed upon. The skeletons she used were, I assume, donated to science. Was anybody hurt by her actions?

The woman took a number of psych tests given by law enforcement and passed all of them. She appears to be sane by all the means they tried to test her sanity.

In summation, remains legally acquired, nobody's rights infringed upon, and she apparently isn't crazy.

Nightmare mode:
There is now a new Holy Grail of dark amateur pornography. The police found 2 dvds in her possession. One called "My First Experience," and the other "My Necrophilia." It's a safe bet these films will never even ever see the light of day.

So, woman uses skeletons to masturbate. Thoughts?

 

[Mad 'At]

Well I had not heard of this but it seams to be true. After looking around I found several articles about it, some from the larger new companies.

Could not find her name anywhere, though I'm not surprised, it is rare to mention names here in Sweden. But it appears that she lived in Bergsjön, which is a part of Göteborg (Gothenburg).

The information I've found seams to be quite inconsistent. For example, SvD writes that "My Necrophilia" was a story written by herself about herself. There she says that she has been a necrophilia here whole life. But the is no mention there about "My First Experience". While other articles mention both a DVD videos.

And some of the details are very odd, the writers seam shocked that she had put a whole skeleton on the floor (!), and the she sometimes stored part in her freezer (!).

About being a criminal. The prosecutors seam to believe that she did infarct dig up graves, but there is no prof. Though, she did seam to plan to dig up graves in the near future. It seams proven that she did by some the parts from internet companies who were supplied by illegal sellers in India and China (so probably not science stuff). Also, she is charged for illegal weapon possession too, gunshots has been reported coming from her apartment and the police found electric teaser and a lot of knifes in her home.

I'll see if I can find more.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Well someone sure does have a bone on. erv:

She has broke no laws and is within her rights.
All it is, is people getting offended and its a taboo so they are trying to dig up any charge that they can get to stick with evidence or not.
Personally I say let her get on with it and stop wasting our time.

No one was harmed, it makes her happy and at the end of the day provided she is doing this in her own home its no ones damn business.

Weapon possession?
Allot of people have knives, allot of people also have display swords and knivesm I do and I am willing to be other people here do.
A electric taser is used normally for self defense, be thankful she does not keep guns like people elsewhere.

 

[Mad 'At]

Weapon laws in Sweden are weird, she might very well get convicted for the weapon possession. I heard of a guy who was charge under the "knife law" for having a baseball bat in his car :frown: And don't forget the incident with gun shoots being heard, she might have had a gun, some witnesses say so, they just can't find it in her house.

About no one getting harmed, what about the dead people? We have laws against spoiling and abusing human remains, because it is disrespect towards the dead. Unless she had allowances from the people whose skeletons she used she might be convicted for it.

But I do mostly agree with you, she's just weird and probably harmless. Dead people don't care and she probably bought the parts with no intention of dishonouring the dead, only because of a strange fetish.

 

[Melle]

Swedish Gun law even forbids ammunition.
if u don't have a gunlicence, u can't have ammo. EACH gun needs a specific licence, and you can only have the ammo type for that specific gun(I'm talking hunting rifles here, pistols and others are a waay other league, taking forever to get, including 6 months membership in a shooting club, no policerwcord etc etc.)
also everyting needs to be locked away into a safe, so if u have ammo lying about when cops come, you're going down, no matter who's skeleton your riding

 

[Mad 'At]

Yea, I should have mentioned that I realise now, thanks Melle

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Weapon laws in Sweden are weird, she might very well get convicted for the weapon possession. I heard of a guy who was charge under the "knife law" for having a baseball bat in his car :frown: And don't forget the incident with gun shoots being heard, she might have had a gun, some witnesses say so, they just can't find it in her house.

About no one getting harmed, what about the dead people? We have laws against spoiling and abusing human remains, because it is disrespect towards the dead. Unless she had allowances from the people whose skeletons she used she might be convicted for it.

But I do mostly agree with you, she's just weird and probably harmless. Dead people don't care and she probably bought the parts with no intention of dishonouring the dead, only because of a strange fetish.

Weapon laws in most cases can get stupid, they look for any excuse, even box cutters from work.
A weapon is only a weapon when used with intent, I have a hundred things in arms reach, knives, pliers, old xbox, I could kill you with each of them, especially the old xbox, its a damn heavy thing to be hit by.

The gun shots could of come from anywhere and people tend to cry wolf when they want rid of someone like in this case.

Disrespecting the dead is more a case of religious significance and if she bought them legally there is no issue.

 

[Mad 'At]

So then it is basically a question whether she bought them legally or not, which no one seams to know for sure.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

It appears there's a lack of evidence of wrong doing for a lot of the supposedly broken laws. I read she's looking at 2 years max, but i'm not sure what the official charge is.

 

[Melle]

duke, Gun shots in possesion is against the law, no matter where they came from. Swedish gun laws are VERY harsh, bordering to insane if not crossed.
haven't read the articles, but the 2 years could be from gun shots alone.
having them in possesion, claiming to not know where it came from is 'indifference' wich is waaay worse than 'intent' here.
fact example. my friends brother, let's call him Pete, needed cash, he agreed to recieve a parcel from Thailand from an old friend, knowing this 'friend's dabbled with drugs.
he received parcel and delivered it to the 'friend's who was now home again. not asking nor caring about content.
suffice to say they got busted.
Pete stated he didn't know nor cared about content in court, and got trailed for 'indifference' as well getting 3 years.
the 'friend', proven to have sent, recieved and had 4 more similar parcels in his home when busted got 2!! years for smuggling and possession....coke I believe. he got out on probation after 1 year, but with footlock for the rest of time.
those 2 are both old friends of mine, since way back.We don't hang out anymore, since I 'grew up' and they didn't...
Pete is a nice enough guy who has fallen a bit on the side, whereas the 'friend' is a hardened criminal with long record of most things imaginable.
key word is 'indifference'
quote from court: the parcel could have contained anything..
Pete: ya, so? its not mine..
court: but if it had been bodyparts?(this is where it gets on topic)
Pete: still not mine, i only passed it on.
court: so you really don't care?
Pete: Nope
'indifference' ! lock him up.

sorry for the rant, but u get the picture of swedish court system and how they prioritise

oh, funny/sad fact. Pete lived with and have a child with a policewoman when this occured, and yes she left him...

 

[Mello]

wow, pretty er.. odd legal system?

I mean assuming she hasn't broken any laws, why are we so antagonised to her?

 

[Melle]

edited my wall of text, switched the word 'neglect' to 'indifference'
which is more correctly translated.
ya, when I heard the sentences I was abashed. petes 3 years time didn't really work either, like in most cases, he is now full time criminal too instead of just the rascal he was be4

 

[Melle]

so the verdict has fallen in this case:
she was sentenced 2 years probation for griftefrid crime(keeping and trading human remains with intent, putting several piesces together into a complete skeleton)
and crimes against gun laws.(having ammunition at home and also firing a shot through her kitchen window)
she will also be receiving(forced) mental care
and a clinic for drugabuse...

they couldnt prove the sexual parts of her crimes

i think there was 'only' 1 complete skeleton(from several corpses) and 6-7 skulls

edit: griftefrid crime it's called and equivalent of the crime of flipping tombstones and such, 'disturbing the final peace or such'

 

[Adam_Barrow]

so the verdict has fallen in this case:
she was sentenced 2 years probation for griftefrid crime(keeping and trading human remains with intent, putting several piesces together into a complete skeleton)
and crimes against gun laws.(having ammunition at home and also firing a shot through her kitchen window)
she will also be receiving(forced) mental care
and a clinic for drugabuse...

they couldnt prove the sexual parts of her crimes

i think there was 'only' 1 complete skeleton(from several corpses) and 6-7 skulls

edit: griftefrid crime it's called and equivalent of the crime of flipping tombstones and such, 'disturbing the final peace or such'

Thanks for the update! Did the ever release her name?

 

[Melle]

no I don't think so, we don't often do that in Sweden.
why, are you looking for a date?

 

[Shareya]

so the verdict has fallen in this case:
she was sentenced 2 years probation for griftefrid crime(keeping and trading human remains with intent, putting several piesces together into a complete skeleton)
and crimes against gun laws.(having ammunition at home and also firing a shot through her kitchen window)
she will also be receiving(forced) mental care
and a clinic for drugabuse...

they couldnt prove the sexual parts of her crimes

i think there was 'only' 1 complete skeleton(from several corpses) and 6-7 skulls

edit: griftefrid crime it's called and equivalent of the crime of flipping tombstones and such, 'disturbing the final peace or such'

So basically she was a bit nutty druggy who collected bones. Oh well, everyone needs a hobby.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

so the verdict has fallen in this case:
she was sentenced 2 years probation for griftefrid crime(keeping and trading human remains with intent, putting several piesces together into a complete skeleton)
and crimes against gun laws.(having ammunition at home and also firing a shot through her kitchen window)
she will also be receiving(forced) mental care
and a clinic for drugabuse...

they couldnt prove the sexual parts of her crimes

i think there was 'only' 1 complete skeleton(from several corpses) and 6-7 skulls

edit: griftefrid crime it's called and equivalent of the crime of flipping tombstones and such, 'disturbing the final peace or such'

So basically she was a bit nutty druggy who collected bones. Oh well, everyone needs a hobby.

Not quite, they claim she was a nutty druggy but thats the first that has been said on either about her mental state or drugs of any kind.
Odds are they are trumped up so they can get rid of her because she offended peoples sense of normal.

 

[Sanai]

Talk about skeletons in the closet....


and what sexual parts of the crime? What are swedens laws relating to having sex with dead things? (Personally I do not think there logically should be laws against necrophelia so long as the deceased person or their family signed a consent form of some kind when they were alive)

(Imagine, you sign a consent form and donate your body to a company for the use of necropheliacs after you die in exchange for cash. Someone gets to fulfill their fetish without breaking the law, the company makes some money hiring out the corpse, and you get a large amount of money while you are alive in exchange for something that happens after you die.)

It would be controversial, but it would be lucrative. The concept of morality is an ever shifting thing. Many taboos have already fallen... it always strikes me as a double standard that we villify people for some taboos (such as necrophelia) but say it is wrong to judge people for carrying out other taboos (sodomy, interracial, bondage, horseplay, etc)

Heres an interesting ethical question to think about actually along the lines of the necrophelia debate-
Are three of the most taboo of sexual desires (Necrophelia, Bestiality and Pedophelia) inherently wrong? Or are they only wrong when the person carries out said desires/hurts people as a result? Is there a line to draw when it comes to peoples sexuality and what we accept? Or are we to judge people for what they cannot control?

 

[Mello]

Good point Sanai,

Now seeing as my dad is a Paedophile, this should give me a pretty decent view on the matter. He's been to prison, I still like him and we still have a functional family (except my dad now lives on his own). I personally can't see a difference in him since before and after prison (where he received 'treatment') so I don't think any of these three "crimes" is a crime, as long as there isn't rape involved.

Necrophilia: I mean, its a dead body, who cares? The body certainly doesn't.

Bestiality: Well I doubt the animal is having a bad time, it may be a little confused, but it won't be sad.

Paedophilia: Difficult. You could argue that children are beyond the "age of consenet" bla bla, but consent must exist somewhere..

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Now Bestiality I just class as wrong, mainly because it is with a living thing that can not voice a protest.

Necrophilia provided consent is given is fine, not you're body so you don't get a say damn it, some people like having their bones jumped. erv:

Pedophilia is the hard one, mainly because for thousands of years and into the 18th century girls as young as 13, same as boys were classed as men and married and had children early in life because people lived allot shorter lives.
However why the scaling back of this into the modern age, where people must be older to do the same things, in the 19th century and early 20th children would drink beer at school, allot of other countries have much lower age of consent for sex and drinking laws, some 12 where as some are 21.
Personally I think provided the person in question is of a mental maturity where they clearly know what they are doing then it is fine.
I myself remember when I was 13 sleeping with a girl 3 years older than myself, I knew what I was getting into perv and by god I enjoyed it.
Society has turned into a mandated jump when we say and like the things we say, people are targeted now for acting, speaking and dressing different, bedroom behavior has always been more private so persecution over such habits is always that much worse.
The only things that matter are:
1: Is it going to hurt anyone?
2: Is everyone involved wanting the said act to go ahead?
3: Does everyone understand the act in its entirety?

Provided you have No, Yes, yes then people need to shut the hell up and mind their own business, it does not involve you, has nothing to do with you and if you feel threatened by it stop being such a damn weak minded individual, if indeed you can be called a individual.

 

[Mello]

Agreed with the above, but why do you think animals can't, you know, just run of if they don't want it?

 

[Shareya]

Most children are not mentally mature enough for sex at the age 13. Some might be but most not.
Any sick bastard that beds children needs to get castrated and thankfully this is getting more popular to counter the problem. I could not care less how they did it in ze olden days. It's wrong and sick beyond words.

Also with animals it's often the same with children. Kept still by force or too confused and scared to move once it's too late.

 

[Sanai]

Sigh, my post wasn't really read properly. I was referring to people having the feelings/desire and whether that is wrong or not, or whether it is the acting out of said things that is the thing that is wrong.

It is unfair to punish someone for what happens in their mind, people should only be judged for their actions.

(If we judged people based on their thoughts/feelings, we would all likely be murderers!)

 

[Mello]

Now, Sereth is mad at me now (from a chat discussion about this, you can probably tell we have vastly different views), but I'd like to continue this debate calmly, if possible. IF it gets out of hand, then we'll change subject. I don't want to be responsible for a thread lock.

My point in defence of all of these people:

They are how they are simply are. They were born or influenced in some way into wanting what they want. Is it really their fault that what they feel simply is odd to others, should they listen to those who tell them what they think is wrong, when it just feels normal to them? It's like growing up and being told doing warhammer is sick and a crime, but you love it and don't understand what's wrong.

Just saying it is sometimes difficult to understand people's thoughts and that not everyone wants to be "normal".

 

[Johnny-Crass]

This is getting a tad out of hand even for Beast Within. As much as we like to think otherwise this is still at its heart a semi-family friendly forum. I am going lock this for now. If you want the discussion to continue PM me your reason.