Macarian
Vampire Insomniac
This. Don't forget it's a game, tournaments are different, ask the organisers on their stance and abide by it or don't go.
End times magic shenanigans
- Thread starter estwheadn
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This. Don't forget it's a game, tournaments are different, ask the organisers on their stance and abide by it or don't go.
A Khaine magic VC list would look way different than a regular magic phase list. Trying to sneak it past me at set up is pretty lame. Agree with me before hand so i can have a proper list prepared and it's game on, homie.
What? Playing warhammer isn't mandatory by law? God... I've wasted several years then. O well, finally I can get on with my life. Thanks guys 
@The Sun King You can finally start that novel you've been meaning to write.
"Gone With the Wind." Also, it turns out without Warhammer you have time to invent a time machine.
Nah, actually I was going for "Goodbye, Testicles" or "Why Mommy Poisoned You"...
The winds of magic and end times spells are just taken from storm of magic. It's possible that we are seeing hints of 9th, but it's also possible they just connecting storm of magic to end times to have 8th go out with a bang!
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
You have to consider the other side too. Rules say he can enable the alternative magic rules if he wants and your response comes across that he is a jerk for trying to use them when you don't want to.
It's like him casting a spell to make your unit take a toughness test or die and you walk away from the table for him trying to enforce that you roll those tests when you don't want to.
I don't much like analogies when actualities work just fine. That T test bit is farcical, because I'm not an asshole. If I behaved like that, I'd expect dude to not play with me anymore. So, with that preface:
If I don't know I'm going into a Khaine magic game, my army is going to look one way. If I do, it'll be another way. I'm not a jerk for expecting to be allowed to decide what my army looks like.
Is chicanery acceptable in a game nobody has a gun to my head to play? Sorry, no.
If I don't know I'm going into a Khaine magic game, my army is going to look one way. If I do, it'll be another way. I'm not a jerk for expecting to be allowed to decide what my army looks like.
Is chicanery acceptable in a game nobody has a gun to my head to play? Sorry, no.
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
I'm not sure how the t - test example is any different than the Khaine magic one.
In both your ignoring a rule because you don't like it. It is really quite subjective to determine ignoring one is fine but the other isn't.
My list would look different depending on my enemies magic item choices too, but I don't get to know those until I run into them. So am I not a jerk for wanting to decide what my army looks like after I've seen what he brought?
And just to note in case I'm coming across badly. I've no intention of calling you a jerk in any of my posts, just hypothetical discussion.
No offense taken, mate. And none given, hopefully.
I guess what strikes me as odd, then, is this idea of a blind game coming together. A tournament, you're gunna know what the score is before hand. A pick up game at the shop, I'd imagine you and dude have at least shot an IM or two back and forth. My point is not agreeing on playing a game supercedes any obligation to play a game.
Also, it's not that I even dislike Khaine magic phases. I played some Storm of Magic back in the day. It was a laugh. Sounds like we've cleared our points to each other nicely.
I guess what strikes me as odd, then, is this idea of a blind game coming together. A tournament, you're gunna know what the score is before hand. A pick up game at the shop, I'd imagine you and dude have at least shot an IM or two back and forth. My point is not agreeing on playing a game supercedes any obligation to play a game.
Also, it's not that I even dislike Khaine magic phases. I played some Storm of Magic back in the day. It was a laugh. Sounds like we've cleared our points to each other nicely.
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
Must be different experiences. Sometimes me and my opponents share everything we are going to bring, and sometimes I just agree to a match at a points value and show up with my list and what I am using.
That second instance, where my opponent might have counted on getting to claim Khaine magic is where it seems a bit dick ish of me to turn him down.
But yes I understand what kind of instances you're likely alluding too.
Infernal Skull
Wight King
Using Khaine/ End Times Magic is probably the sort of thing that should be established when the players decide on the points size for the battle. The reason is that it's not like taking a piece of equipment that has an effect on your army, it's a change to core rules of the game that applies to both armies.
If it comes up as part of a random scenario, that's different, but if one payer wants to use ET magic, he probably shouldn't spring that fact when the two set up and start generating their spells.
If it comes up as part of a random scenario, that's different, but if one payer wants to use ET magic, he probably shouldn't spring that fact when the two set up and start generating their spells.
What's different about this end times magic is its not like 50% lords/heroes where its on in all games nor is it like Chaos Ascendant where it is scenario based or when players agree. Magic of the End Times is both.
It clearly says you must use it when one of the following conditions apply. Condition #1 and #4 are choice, i.e. scenario you are playing or both payers wanting to use it. Condition #2 and #3 are based on what your opponent is playing, i.e. playing a Elven Host from the Khaine book or using a unit from the Khaine book.
So basically, your opponent shows up with a elf army or unit from End Times Khaine, you use End Times Magic.
Before craziness unleashes and people say all elf units are end times units because they are listed in the armies in the Khaine book, the rule probably refers to utilizing a unit actually originating from End Times Khaine.
It clearly says you must use it when one of the following conditions apply. Condition #1 and #4 are choice, i.e. scenario you are playing or both payers wanting to use it. Condition #2 and #3 are based on what your opponent is playing, i.e. playing a Elven Host from the Khaine book or using a unit from the Khaine book.
So basically, your opponent shows up with a elf army or unit from End Times Khaine, you use End Times Magic.
Before craziness unleashes and people say all elf units are end times units because they are listed in the armies in the Khaine book, the rule probably refers to utilizing a unit actually originating from End Times Khaine.
GhoulKing505
Grave Guard
You could always just bring two lists and ask your opponent before setting up if ent times magic will be used. If it will you use the list you made that is prepared for it. If not you run your regular list. Either way you just made two list. I mean isn't list building by itself a really fun part of the game?
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
You kidding?? I made 4 lists instead of doing homework today... it is very clearly the best part. Playing the game sometimes gets in the way of list tweaking.
LOL Tobio 
I don't think that Magic of The End Times will be a problem because: A) You know your opponent before hand and know if he/she's bringing an elven army or not or B) You play a tourney where they will have made clear rules about this.
Sure there is the in between of just showing up in a GW store asking for a game but that is like blind dating in the first place so you can't complain if you're stuck with something ugly
I don't think that Magic of The End Times will be a problem because: A) You know your opponent before hand and know if he/she's bringing an elven army or not or B) You play a tourney where they will have made clear rules about this.
Sure there is the in between of just showing up in a GW store asking for a game but that is like blind dating in the first place so you can't complain if you're stuck with something ugly
Let us ponder a little more:
A tournament is held where everyone is allowed to bring any army of their choice (it to be revealed only until a match begins). The organizers state "since all GW rules apply, people wanting (and agreeing) to play with End Times magic will be allowed to, even if there are no Elven Hosts / Khaine units in play, however, in the case of disagreement, you will play with regular Magic (unless it is mandatory that you play ET, with elves and such)"
Now you need to bring an all-comers list that can play with or without End Times magic for the ultimate toolbox list! =D
It's true that some lists will benefit more from using End Times magic, however I believe it's more a matter of skill while casting than tailoring a list against them. With 50% lords and heroes, everyone is fielding a Lv 4 Wizard, and in our case, we always tend to field a backup necro or two, as arcane item caddys. Choosing our Lore has always been about always getting the spell we want to play (all LoV casters, for instance) and it's true that many spells we'd like to always have like VDM make a fine strategy while playing.
However, my point is, we can also learn to play with "regular" magic phase lists against "cheesed-up" End Times lists since we have all it takes to match magic with our own (Lv4 casters who don't loose concentration!).
Hierotitans and Caskets are fairly standard now in UL lists, and the only real item we could bring to annoy an opponent is the Corpse Cart with Balefire to limit their already limited (D6) amount of dice they can use to cast. Maybe the... rod or wand that gives you +1 to dispel, but that's actually it.
lv 1 and 2 casters will always struggle to cast spells of 10+ because of their low level, more so with a limited amount of pool per casting.
Finally, we need to wait to see the full rules in order to prepare against cheesy lores, like Str 8+ Banishment Light Covens or so...
A tournament is held where everyone is allowed to bring any army of their choice (it to be revealed only until a match begins). The organizers state "since all GW rules apply, people wanting (and agreeing) to play with End Times magic will be allowed to, even if there are no Elven Hosts / Khaine units in play, however, in the case of disagreement, you will play with regular Magic (unless it is mandatory that you play ET, with elves and such)"
Now you need to bring an all-comers list that can play with or without End Times magic for the ultimate toolbox list! =D
It's true that some lists will benefit more from using End Times magic, however I believe it's more a matter of skill while casting than tailoring a list against them. With 50% lords and heroes, everyone is fielding a Lv 4 Wizard, and in our case, we always tend to field a backup necro or two, as arcane item caddys. Choosing our Lore has always been about always getting the spell we want to play (all LoV casters, for instance) and it's true that many spells we'd like to always have like VDM make a fine strategy while playing.
However, my point is, we can also learn to play with "regular" magic phase lists against "cheesed-up" End Times lists since we have all it takes to match magic with our own (Lv4 casters who don't loose concentration!).
Hierotitans and Caskets are fairly standard now in UL lists, and the only real item we could bring to annoy an opponent is the Corpse Cart with Balefire to limit their already limited (D6) amount of dice they can use to cast. Maybe the... rod or wand that gives you +1 to dispel, but that's actually it.
lv 1 and 2 casters will always struggle to cast spells of 10+ because of their low level, more so with a limited amount of pool per casting.
Finally, we need to wait to see the full rules in order to prepare against cheesy lores, like Str 8+ Banishment Light Covens or so...
Actually I'm organizing a big End Times tournament, that is to be held in February. The solution that we have agreed on is to say the Magic of the End Times is in effect - in ALL games
Infernal Skull
Wight King
Another thread mentioned, after picking a wizard and declaring the spell, that you roll a D6 to determine the max number of power dice you can roll for the spell.
Is that B.S. or a thing? Because none of the pages popping up online seem to show it. The rules for rolling 4D6 aren't in any of the WH:Khaine photographed pages, either.
Is that B.S. or a thing? Because none of the pages popping up online seem to show it. The rules for rolling 4D6 aren't in any of the WH:Khaine photographed pages, either.
GhoulKing505
Grave Guard
Infernal Skull
Wight King
I think a non-UL Manny would be perfectly suited for this. He re-rolls casting attempts for Death and LoV, can generate extra power/dispel dice, re-roll WoM dice, and can spam IoN with Dark Acolyte to decrease dispel success. And since you can re-cast spells that are lower than 15+, multiple Soul Blights or multiple Doom and Darkness. Since it's not Remains in Play, the original casting doesn't go away. You can reduce several units' leadership (including the good ol' general), and Spirit Leech snipe all enemy characters for funsies and to gain some dice back. With the Loremaster re-roll, Doom is an almost guaranteed two dice spell, and Spirit Leech can go off on a 3+ with a re-roll. Three power dice (ignoring dispel, of course) to do an average of three wounds to a character and get a power die back? Or reduce your opponent's elite units' leadership and Casket the hell out of his battle line.
Can hex spells stack? 'Cause now I have visions of a Ld 1 Dwarf Lord getting Spirit Leeched, and then his unit gets Death Screamed into oblivion.
Can hex spells stack? 'Cause now I have visions of a Ld 1 Dwarf Lord getting Spirit Leeched, and then his unit gets Death Screamed into oblivion.