Handbook Addendum, Magic Items and Lores

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Scalenex

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Mar 6, 2012
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This is the original thread (edited a modest amount) that I used to get Najo and Sun King to work on the official 8ed handbook.

This covers peripheral add-ons. The BRB magical items and the Forbidden Lores.

Red is dead. This is a choice that's so bad, it actively detracts from your army synergy and makes your list a worse one overall.

Yellow is conditional. It may shine in certain match up or when used in certain ways, but in general it's a subpar choice.

Green is the average. Not necessarily a great choice, but it's rarely one you'll end up regretting.

Blue is an above-average or exceptional choice. These options frequently increase army synergy and overall list strength.

Purple is the highest rating in this handbook, and it's reserved for choices that should be staples in virtually all competitive lists. Don't leave home without 'em.

Forbidden Magic Lores

:skull:Najo Edit: In collaboration with @Scalenex, The Sun King and I have elaborated this section and incorporated it into the Vampire Count's Handbook.:skull:

BRB Magic Items



Magic Weapons


Giant Blade - It’s a nice weapon, but it’s debatable whether it’s truly worth 20 points more than Ogre Blade.

Sword of Bloodshed - If you have a Red Fury lord and know you are facing mostly T3 troops, this isn’t terrible. Usually I’d rather have boosted Strength though.

Obsidian Blade – For ten fewer points you can take the Ogre Blade, wound more often, and eliminate most armor saves anyway.

Ogre Blade – Strength 7 is usually just the right amount. Ogre Blade is probably the best blade to give a Red Fury blender lord.

Sword of Strife – Nearly as potent as the Sword of Bloodshed, but it doesn’t cut into your points as much so your Lord has more points to spend on other items.

Fencer’s Blades – Vampires have such high WS that they don’t need this item, especially for the price. The nice thing about this item is that it is defensive as well as offensive, so it might be worth giving to a Master Necromancer if you plan to run him without a vampire or Wight in his unit.

Sword of Anti-Heroes – This is moderately handy against most armies. It’s a godsend against armies that really load up their front ranks with characters such as well…Vampire Counts.

Spellthieving Sword – If your Vampire or Wight King is directing attacks at an enemy wizard, you want to KILL the wizard, not merely dock his spells.

Sword of Swift Slaying– In most cases a Lord is better off paying slightly more for Quickblood since you can still take a magic weapon with Quickblood but this lets a hero-level vampire with Red Fury enjoy always striking first.

Sword of Battle – An Extra attack is always nice, and this won’t eat your points away too much.

Berserker Sword - This is an inferior form of the Sword of Battle. For a living character this is like a Sword of Battle with a small chance of unwanted charges that bestows Immune to Psychology. Since undead don’t ever need to visit their shrinks, this sword is a minor liability for us.

Sword of Might – If you are tight on points, this is a good weapon to give your blender Lord. If you want a secondary fighting character this is a good weapon to give him.

Gold Sigil Sword – With their relative high Initiative score and easy access to getting Always Strikes First, this is a candy purchase.

Sword of Striking – You hit more often and it’s fairly cheap. What’s not to like?

Biting Blade – A Strength boost is better but this weapon is very cheap. Not bad as an afterthought for a character without a magic weapon if you have the points left and don’t feel like padding your giant units with one or two more models.

Shrieking Blade – Fear Causing soldiers? What a great idea! Oh wait we already have that in spades (in fact many of the Fear causing soldiers were dug up with spades).

Relic Blade – Yuck! Against nearly all enemies, vampires and wights should be wounding on 5+ or better anyway.

Tormentor Sword – Good when ANY magical weapon will do since it’s so cheap. The actual effect is pretty small and is liable to be forgotten in a game.

Warrior Bane – Like the Tormentor Sword, it’s good because it’s a cheap magic weapon. The special ability is also more likely to come into play. The power is actually useful when fighting defensively built monsters allowing even a mediocre fighter to effectively neuter them.


Magic Armors


Armor of Destiny – For only five more points than the Talisman of Preservation, you get the awesome Ward Save and heavy armor.

Trickster’s Helm – It’s a bit expensive, but vampires and wights are hard to wound for most things, so this helmet can come in handy. This will make a tough character nigh-invulnerable against most regular troops.

Armor of Silvered Steel – If your fighting character must be foot, this can get you a decent armor save and lets you pack a great weapon or additional hand weapon. If you aren’t on foot, don’t take this.

Armor of Fortune – Like the Armor of Destiny this gives you heavy armor and a useful Ward Save. While a 5+ Save isn’t super impressive, but this frees up points for a hero level fighter letting him take another minor magic item or two.

Helm of Discord – For its cost, you really need a guaranteed matchup with a low leadership army to make this item worth it. This can theoretically work if you are building your whole army around things that hex enemy leadership (viable with Vampire Counts)

Glittering Scales – Sometimes it’s better to not get in hit in the first place which may or may not make up for the foregone point in armor save of your opponents. Given that Vampire Lords have such high WS this means you will be hit very rarely with this on. If you are likely to be facing high WS armies, pair this with the Dread Knight power for added security.

Shield of Ptolos – In theory, if you have a lone flying vampire and are playing versus Wood Elves or some other non-artillery based gun line this has some value. The problem is it’s too expensive for this very narrow niche.

Spellshield – Not terrible, but I’d rather get my MR from the slightly cheaper Obsidian Trinket and not burn up my only Magic Armor slot on this.

Gambler’s Armor – This is the bargain bin version of Armor of Destiny. For only five more points than the Talisman of Protection, you get the Ward Save and the heavy armor.

Dragonhelm – An inexpensive way to get another point of armor save when you want to conserve points and are planning on equipping your character with a two-handed weapon. The bonus Ward Save versus fire is almost an afterthought but nice to have when it comes up.

Enchanted Shield – If you aren’t giving your characters two-handed weapons, this is the best armor for a general on a budget. +2 to Armor Saves barely costing more than a vanilla shield.

Charmed Shield – It may be one-use only for the power, but the shield itself stays all game and it barely costs more than a regular shield. I’d consider this standard issue to any vampire character on a flying mount, so at least the rider can (probably) ignore the first cannonball.


Magic Talismans



Talisman of Preservation – A 4+ Ward save for a reasonable price. Good if you want to protect a master Necromancer or if you want to give your fighting Lord magic armor that doesn’t have a built in Ward save. A bit wasteful on Hero level characters though.

Obsidian Lodestone – If you are building your army around a Deathstar or bus, this isn’t a bad idea since the MR works on the whole unit making your killer unit hard to nuke. If you aren’t putting all your eggs in one basket, leave this item at home, it's too price for a combined unit under 500 points.

Talisman of Endurance - If you already spending this many points on a Talisman, why not go 15 more and at least get at least a 50% of shrugging off wounds?

Obsidian Amulet – Like the Lodestone, it works on a whole unit. It’s less expensive so it’s not a bad item to include on any decent unit if your leading character has points allowance left in magical items.

Dawnstone – If you can bring your vampire to a 1+ or 2+ armor save this is a good investment. Keep in mind though that most things that can threaten your badass characters have pretty high strength. A re-rollable 2+ save is great, but a rerollable 5+ or 6+ save after modifiers is underwhelming. I prefer Ward saves, but I see the value of this.

Opal Amulet – Sometimes one save is all you need and this is fairly cheap. Unless you have weighted dice, a two wound character will benefit more from a one use 4+ save than a multi-use 6+ save. This is a good choice for support characters, but I’d generally want to give Lords something stronger than this

Obsidian Trinket – The poor man’s Obsidian item may not do much but it can cover a large number of models if the character is in the right unit (and we often field VERY large units).

Talisman of Protection – Not useless, but the price is a little steep for a magical item that will fail you most of the time.

Seed of Rebirth– In most cases, this will give you the same protection as the Talisman of Protection for less cost. Note an opponent making an anti-Vampire Counts list will probably stock up on flaming attacks though. It works very well with characters in Mortis Engine based lists.

Dragonbane Gem –This is so cheap it might be worth packing just in case of flaming attacks. Practically standard issue for Strigoi Ghoul Kings.

Pigeon Plucker Amulet – It will rarely come into play, but at 5 points you aren’t out much if it doesn’t work. If I had a support character on a flying mount, I might try this to make myself a dogfighter for fun.

Luckstone – One of the better dirt cheap magical items. Sometimes one save is the difference between life and death. If your armored character still has a few points left in his magic item allowance, you can do worse than them give this.


Magic Standards


Rampager’s Standard – This is BSB only and in the event you decide you want a BSB, it should generally be packing a non-magical standard. To make this even remotely useable you need to have a large Black Knight bus and have mounted BSB be standing next to a very killy Vampire Lord. Otherwise your BSB is just a points sink carrying this.

Wailing Banner – There are far easier ways for the undead to cause Terror than this overpriced banner.

Ranger's Standard – Don’t bother giving this to units on foot. It’s expensive but it only needs to save one Blood Knight or 2.15 Black Knights per game on average to pay for itself and you just might surprise someone who is trying to screen himself from your bus with rough terrain.

Razor Standard – A decent upgrade for Black Knights, Blood Knights, and especially Grave Guard since these units are expected to do the bulk of your killing and every boost helps.

War Banner – It’s a bit expensive but it will make you more likely to break your enemies and save you a casualty when you are on the losing side.

Banner of Swiftness - I can't think of a ton of situations where I'd like to get one more inch of movement, but this is a cheap item.

Lichbone Pennant – A magical standard for the same price as the identically functioning Obsidian Trinket. Why not? It doesn’t matter what form MR comes in. Probably a better option for Skeleton blocks since they tend to be big enough to be able to benefit from a mere MR 1 and the Pennant comes out your Core tax.

Standard of Discipline – Undead don’t take many leadership tests, but this banner is cheap and not at all bad to give to a unit bunkering a character with Spirit Leech.

Banner of Eternal Flame – You never know when you will need to assault a building or fight something with Regeneration. It’s cheap enough that if you don’t run across one of these situations you aren’t out many points. Watch out for High Elf Dragon Knights, characters with the Dragonbane Gem, and most of the Chaos Dwarf army.

Gleaming Pennant – Undead don’t take many leadership tests, but this banner cost next to nothing. If you lose your general item will pay for itself by helping you resist crumbles. If you have a backup lore of Vampires wielder handy, one retest is all you need.

Scarecrow Banner – It may be cheap but it does literally nothing since everything already causes Fear.


Arcane Items



The real limiting factor is that we can only take one arcane item per wizard. That’s generally a bigger limiting factor than the, actual points cost.

Book of Ashur – Useful but it costs a lot for what it does. Never give this to casters below level 4.

Feedback Scroll – You need to have a foe fond of casting ueberspells from wizards without Ward Saves for this item to work.

Scroll of Leeching – A lot of points for something that can’t actually stop or mitigate a spell in any way. To get maximum mileage out of this spell you need to play this when a player throws five or six dice at a spell. That means your opponent probably won’t have any dice left so your new extra dispel dice aren’t that useful, especially if a Miscast burns the rest of their power dice away. In a Storm of Magic game (or End Times magic games), this Scroll becomes Green because there is actually call for mountains of dispel dice mid-phase.

Sivejir’s Hex Scroll – It’s fun to turn people into frogs but this scroll only has a 50% chance of nerfing an enemy wizard Lord and it might only last for a single turn. That’s a lot left up to chance for an item that will eat a Necromancer’s entire magic points allowance.

Power Scroll – I can see a case for this being on a level one or level two Necromancer. They are expendable enough that you can justify courting irresistible force, but this is a bad item for Lords of any type.

Wand of Jet – A little weak, but it is a rarity in that you can decide to use it AFTER making your casting attempt rather than before which can save you from whiffing a magic phase. In Storm of Magic it becomes Green because it can help you roll more dice to get big Cataclysm spells off.

Forbidden Rod – Undead can always use more power dice but the risk of losing a character bites. I recommend a Master Necromancer with the Opal Amulet. His odds of dying are only in six and he can heal back lost wounds with the Lore of Vampires attribute. In my opinion the risk is worth it because you will usually roll at least one subpar Winds of Magic roll. Alternatively a level one Necromancer with the Opal Amulet has a 50% chance of surviving but costs you less if he does die.

Trickster’s Shard – You have to announce this at the beginning of the magic phase so you can’t pull this as an effective surprise. With only a 1 in three chance of wounding an enemy wizard per spell you lose, this is NOT worth taking up a precious Arcane Item slot.

Earthing Rod – It’s expensive for a magic item that might fail you, but I’d consider taking this if I were say taking a level four vampire lord with lots of vampire powers just because I’d want to protect my investment.

Dispel Scroll – Knocks out an enemy spell, no questions asked. This item is pretty much standard issue for all armies, not just Vampire Counts.

Power Stone – Not bad for a character expected to be dropping nuke spells. Nearly standard issue for Storm of Magic since you can fuel Cataclysm spells with it.

Sceptre of Stability – If you already have a Dispel Scroll and are desperate for more magic defense this isn’t terrible. The problem is throwaway items like this are usually given to level one caddies and you really need a level four caster to get maximum mileage out of this.

Channeling Staff – If the bearer of this item can stay alive the whole game, this will yield you on average one power die and one dispel die per game. More with arcane ruins. If you have points left in the magic item allowance of your blender lord you can do worse than this.

Scroll of Shielding– This is a good poor man’s dispel scroll because you can still mitigate a nuke spell even if cast with Irresistible Force (or an End Times spell). It’s also fairly cheap. It can cushion the blow of a nuke spell, if it's a Remains in Play spell you get the ward saves versus it every round. It can also save the ethereal bacon of an ethereal unit on the wrong end of a magic missile.


Enchanted items


Wizarding Hat – Vampire Counts have no characters that can legally take this, not that they’d want to.

Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress – This item is crazy expensive. Some armies can try gimmicky tricks with the Folding Fortress but the Vampire Counts is not one of them. Building assaults ONLY use casualties for combat resolution so your troops will lose a buffer against Crumble. If you tried to mitigate this by occupying your fortess with a Blender Lord and some Grave Guard, your opponent will just smirk and bypass your magic building altogether.

Arabyan Carpet – A flying mount is cheaper. So is the Flying Horror power.

Crown of Command - Undead don’t roll break tests.

Healing Potion – Too expensive for what little healing it provides. We should be able to get all character healing we need with the Vampire Lore attribute and the Hunger.

Featherfoe Torc – Even if you are facing a lot of flyers, it just seems too expensive to be worth it.

Ruby Ring of Ruin – It doesn’t take an arcane item slot and can be given to just about any character. To get your points worth out of this, give it to a support character likely to be hanging back from combat. If your character is just going to charge at the enemy you won’t get more than one or two chances to use this.

Terrifying Mask of EEE! – If you really want Terror take Supernatural Horror for the same cost and don’t eat into your magic item allowance. Better yet, spring for a Cairn Wraith and get a nasty support character.

Potion of Strength – This item is intended to give mediocre fighters one round of awesome. In most cases, you want your fighting characters to have staying power, but I can see some call for this with a flying character.

Potion of Toughness – For this points cost you can get a more reliable defensive talisman that is always active.

Other Trickster’s Shard – This is situational because you have to be facing enemies with Ward Saves you want to be ignoring and not be in base to base contact with a friendly character with a Ward save.

Iron Curse Icon This item is so cheap, it only needs to save one model every other game to pay for itself. Whatever your MVP unit is, someone should probably be carrying this item in it.

Potion of Foolhardiness – For hardly any points your Blender can get an extra attack on the charge (and one more chance for Red Fury). A very good deal if you haven’t used your Enchanted Item slot for something else.

Potion of Speed – Undead fighting characters have good initiative already. Still this item is really cheap and it might help you against the rare opponent with better Initiative.
 
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Van Hel's danse macabre synergizes with our army better than hellish vigor. It grants movement, which works with everything and triggers the hexwraiths ride through. The rerolls make the units with poison deadlier. I think this spell is a blue.

Raise dead is huge spell due to redirecting. It is very powerful, influencing enemy movement and charges. It is a purple.

I didn't use to be a big fan of wind of death, then we had a whole thread on here discussing it's pros. With it being a vortex in our lore, it always hitting at full effect even if it skims a unit, it doesn't care about initiative scores, ignoring armor saves, etc. It's really a green.
 
Great initiative! Being one of the most active To War! mods I'll happily write the full handbook. I'll post it up for comments when it's done :)

Thanks Sun King, I can do the BRB magic items if you want too. I wrote the magic item section for the LM forum, so it won't take a whole lot of rewording since MOST of it has the same utility (except VC characters don't lack WS or have Scaly Skin)
 
Van Hel's danse macabre synergizes with our army better than hellish vigor. It grants movement, which works with everything and triggers the hexwraiths ride through. The rerolls make the units with poison deadlier. I think this spell is a blue.

I thought so to. I did the maths for ghouls and re-rolls to wound is actually better than re-rolls to hit.

I would suggest changing the title of this thread to something about a review on magic lores, and keep the different sections seperate so each thread has it's own discussion.
 
I thought so to. I did the maths for ghouls and re-rolls to wound is actually better than re-rolls to hit.

I would suggest changing the title of this thread to something about a review on magic lores, and keep the different sections seperate so each thread has it's own discussion.
The math on poison rerolls depends on if the T of what ghouls and crypt horrors are fighting. If the T is equal to S, then roughly the reroll to hit and to wound get the same number of wounds through to the target. If T is higher, than reroll to hit is better and if lower, reroll to wound. So, in general VHDM is better on ghouls and crypt horrors, and HV on other stuff, especially grave guard and black knights.

With all this said. VHDM grants 8" of movement which is huge. It is also cheaper to cast. The movement with reroll is even better because our army benefits from moving units into intercepting positions and getting charged. To have a reroll boost on top of that? Crazy!

So VHDM is the superior spell. I still stand by it being blue.
 
This is just a draft of one section to get things moving, provoke discussion and attract volunteers. The final project will have lores, magic items, vampire powers, units, and suggested army type builds all in one thread.
 
The math on poison rerolls depends on if the T of what ghouls and crypt horrors are fighting. If the T is equal to S, then roughly the reroll to hit and to wound get the same number of wounds through to the target. If T is higher, than reroll to hit is better and if lower, reroll to wound. So, in general VHDM is better on ghouls and crypt horrors, and HV on other stuff, especially grave guard and black knights.

With all this said. VHDM grants 8" of movement which is huge. It is also cheaper to cast. The movement with reroll is even better because our army benefits from moving units into intercepting positions and getting charged. To have a reroll boost on top of that? Crazy!

So VHDM is the superior spell. I still stand by it being blue.

I agree. Further to that, many of our units can get a 2+ to wound, but it's much harder to get a 2+ to hit, and the re-rolls are even more important for our units that rely on wounds to generate combat res. There's nothing worse than sending a Vampire Lord into combat with a juicy unit and rolling a fistful of 1's and 2's to hit.
 
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I concur that the BRB stuff should have it's own thread (maybe this one?) since too long a thread can discourage viewers from reading... Either way it would be awesome if you would make the BRB item review @Scalenex ! :)

Also, regarding the lores I have two main comments:

Lore of Death: Doom and Darkness is PURPLE when combined with a scream-cheese list. Spirit Leech is at least BLUE since it can be gained through level 1 Necros and combined with IP - and it's a friggin' signature spell :S Overall I would rate this lore PURPLE, but this is debateable. Oh yeah, and Life Leeching is at least BLUE just because of the fact that combined with Purple Sun it restarts your magic phase.

Lore of Vampires: Vanhel's is at least BLUE. The movement part of that spell is insane... 12" bubble that grants 8" movement, why thank you! Wind of Death is probably BLUE with the current meta of MSU elf lists. Hellish Vigor is YELLOW since it's not really nescessary in most builds and get trumped by the other awesome spells in that lore... just look at Vanhel's: It comes with re-rolls, movement AND can bubble. Regarding Gaze... You could rate this BLUE because of the fact that it is the only magic missile that we have access to without taking Forbidden Lore. It is really good at removing sabretusks and the like. I once lost a tournament game JUST because I didn't choose that one spell (meant that my enemy's Grey Seer could walk around freely). Raise Dead is also really good at drawing out fanatics :D

EDIT: Oh, and Transformation of Kadon is INSANE on a VL with RF... Did anyone say Red Fury Breath Weapon? :D
 
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@The Sun King

I put in the BRB magic items.

I included your input on Doom and Darkness and Vanhel's Danse as you suggested.

I'm am not convinced Hellish Vigor should be yellow. Re-rolls to wound are potent and it's got an optional bubble effect. The fact that something is a signature spell does not effect it's color.

If dropping Purple Sun for Spirit Leech sounds odd they should not be equal footing. I made it blue not purple as you suggested. It still seems on the fence between blue and green to me since it's contingent on having the Inspiring Presence and the 12 inch range seems a liability when you consider that VC are fairly slow moving and the spell can't be cast once the unit is engaged. You have more experience with undead than I so I'll concede this to you.

I applied the color rating to Life Leeching for the lore as a whole. Your argument for raising the color rating is based solely on Purple Sun which is already purple. It's misleading to give Life Leeching a higher rating if it's based on one spell.

You need to sell me more on Gaze of Nagash. Too many blue spells makes the color coded system lose it's meaning. I just don't see Gaze of Nagash being on equal footing with Raise Dead or Curse of Years.

The Transformation of Kadon question of whether you get your Red Fury with a breath weapon is probably a better discussion for the rules sub-forum, not here. Do Vampric powers apply when you stop being a vampire? If my Skink Priest uses Transformation of Kadon I'm not going to try to apply Cold Blooded (blood isn't cold any more), Scaly Skin 6+ (different skin), Aquatic (different movement) or arcane vassal (can't cast, so would likely not be able to facilitate another caster). Why should vampires get their vampiric powers when emulating the living?
 
@najo Be careful what you wish for - I have plenty of uses for men like you (insert random perverted DoN'ish joke here). But awesome, I'll pm you when I need something :)

@Scalenex Good points, just keep as is then - in the end most of this is a matter of taste and playstyle. Regarding RF working on breath weapons: The discussion was over a year ago, but the consensus was that in RAW the combo should work, but look it up if you're interested in the specifics, nobody uses the combo so it's more of a curiosity :)

Notes on items:

I would rate Scroll of Shielding BLUE when combined with Hexwraiths, it's a good way to keep them alive from magic missiles.

Earthing Rod only yellow? That is beyond my comprehension. I consider this a auto-include for my level 4 MN, and it has to be at least BLUE. Losing a level 4 to the Void costs games, and we do not play to lose! :) Earthing Rod reduces the risk of losing your MN from 8,335% to 1,35%.

I'll add the potion of speed is good to have on you MN when he tries to cast Purple Sun.

Some updates to your Banner section (which seems very copy pasted from your LM handbook :) ). Banner of Swiftness is close to an auto-include on skeletons since an extra inch gives you the edge you need to park your footslogging vampire where you want him. Razor Standard should be yellow. Black Knights, Blood Knights and Grave Guards have no trouble cutting through armour to begin with and all have different banners they need more: Black Knights = Banner of Swiftness (because they lose movement when joined by vampires) Blood Knights = Flag of the Blood Keep and Grave Guards = Banner of the Barrows so that they actually hit with their petty ws3. Banner of Swiftness should be BLUE.

Seed of Rebirth is cool as Green but should be BLUE when combined with Dual Engines because it's so cheap for 4+ regen on a hero level character (your lord should still have 4++).

Dragon Bane Gem should be BLUE since it's so cheap and gives the ability to solo charge units with flaming attacks (HERE I COME MANEATERS!).

Obsidian Trinket should only be Yellow as MR1 doesn't do much and the two more expensive options are far better (being GREEN).

Glittering Scales should be GREEN as it cuts your armour save down (not being heavy armor).

Fencer's Blades should be GREEN since they are very good on a defensively built SGK or WK. Cheap way not to get hit. Good with Glittering Scales, but lacking the armour save it's risky.

Sword of Swiftslaying only YELLOW? It should be BLUE since it is the only way to make a baby-blender. With only 50 points to spend on powers there is no other way to give a baby vamp RF AND ASF... really good weapon.
 
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This is awesome! Great innitiative.

You need to sell me more on Gaze of Nagash. Too many blue spells makes the color coded system lose it's meaning. I just don't see Gaze of Nagash being on equal footing with Raise Dead or Curse of Years.

It's more of a "nice to have" magic missile in the lore than a "must have", green gives it enough cred and it doesn't come with a side effect like flaming.
 
I like to add a couple points:
Earthing rod still takes up an arcane slot and its one use only. Putting it on your level 4 takes away the slot for black periapt. Black periapt is hands down the best arcane item for dominating the magic phase. Sunny's points are correct but one-sided. I'd say the item is green since its not auto-include for all play styles.

Potion of speed is one use only and limited to really being good with purple sun misfiring. Since potion is one use, you have to take it at start of turn, etc its very situational. There is a whole thread on purple sun's actual value. Pro-level players are divided on utility of death and vampire Lore's and with death purple sun vs the hexes and sniping. So all said, the potion is a green if running purple sun. Yellow or red otherwise.

With those two critiques out of the way, everything else Sunny said I agree with 100%. Just couple minor points to add:

Dragonbane gem is purple for a SGK. With his regen built in, it pretty much makes him unkillable vs flaming attacks that take out his regen save for only 5pts.

Seed of Rebirth is blue with one or two mortis engines. Cheap either way.

Skeletons are amazing with flaming banner. Especially if characters using non-magic weapons.

Couple edits:

Dispel scrolls are blue for us. We have to many good arcane items in our army book that compete for its slot (periapt, book of arkhan and cursed book to name three) and since we can heal damage, we can let more spells through than other armies.

Potion of Strength is powerful on vampires/SGK that take weapons that don't boost strength. They can go from a 5 to a 8 for a turn to destroy something unecpected. It is better than red.

Charmed shield is a cheap way to save a baby vamp and in some builds auto-include. It is at least one level higher.
 
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I like to add a couple points:
Earthing rod still takes up an arcane slot and its one use only. Putting it on your level 4 takes away the slot for black periapt. Black periapt is hands down the best arcane item for dominating the magic phase. Sunny's points are correct but one-sided. I'd say the item is green since its not auto-include for all play styles.

Potion of speed is one use only and limited to really being good with purple sun misfiring. Since potion is one use, you have to take it at start of turn, etc its very situational. There is a whole thread on purple sun's actual value. Pro-level players are divided on utility of death and vampire Lore's and with death purple sun vs the hexes and sniping. So all said, the potion is a green if running purple sun. Yellow or red otherwise.

With those two critiques out of the way, everything else Sunny said I agree with 100%. Just couple minor points to add:

Dragonbane gem is purple for a SGK. With his regen built in, it pretty much makes him unkillable vs flaming attacks that take out his regen save for only 5pts.

Seed of Rebirth is blue with one or two mortis engines. Cheap either way.

Skeletons are amazing with flaming banner. Especially if characters using non-magic weapons.
I disagree with the flaming banner if the hero has non-magical weapons, because many people are going to bring DBG and possibly Dragonhelm (because they are cheap and you never know when it might help), so it almost completely negates a blender lords attacks. I have had this happen more than once and haven't brought it with a unit where I had a vampire since.
 
This is awesome! Great innitiative.



It's more of a "nice to have" magic missile in the lore than a "must have", green gives it enough cred and it doesn't come with a side effect like flaming.

I agree its a nice to have. Only reason to push it up from green to blue would be lack of range in the vampire army, gaze gives us some reach.

Ironically with all our comments on lore of vampires, it clearly shows how valuable the lore is to us. There isn't a yellow or red in the bunch. The spells start at greens and might be all blues and purples.

IoN - blue or purple. Could go blue since it lacks offense, but its suicide not taking it.
VHDM - blue
HV - green or blue - compared to VHDM its more situational. Lacks move.
Gaze - green or blue - not special, but grants reach.
Raise - Blue or purple - very strong as surprise redirecting. Wins games when used right.
CoY - blue
WoD - green or blue - more useful than many of us thought, easy way to do lots of damage to deep units. Can replace purple sun in certain situations. Makes our lore well rounded with vortex. That said, this spell tends to get dumped by a lot of us because others so much more well rounded.

So I'd go:

IoN - purple - to important not to take
HV - green - secondary to VHDM and other blues
Gaze - blue - grants valuable reach we don't have
Raise - purple - that redirect it grants is priceless and wins games all the time
WoD - green - situational and expensive. Has vortex artillery dice drawbacks.
 
I disagree with the flaming banner if the hero has non-magical weapons, because many people are going to bring DBG and possibly Dragonhelm (because they are cheap and you never know when it might help), so it almost completely negates a blender lords attacks. I have had this happen more than once and haven't brought it with a unit where I had a vampire since.
Your blenders shouldn't be fighting other characters. They should be fighting rank and file to generate CR. Characters carry to much protection, it negates your damage potentional. Now, when fighting anything with regen, you going to want blenders with flaming attacks. Nurgle armies will fear you.
 
Your blenders shouldn't be fighting other characters. They should be fighting rank and file to generate CR. Characters carry to much protection, it negates your damage potentional. Now, when fighting anything with regen, you going to want blenders with flaming attacks. Nurgle armies will fear you.
Most of the time, that would be correct, but occasionally the blender has to accept a challenge (being the only one available) in order to generate any combat resolution at all. Or maybe he's fighting those pesky fireborn elves...
 
@Scalenex Good points, just keep as is then - in the end most of this is a matter of taste and playstyle. Regarding RF working on breath weapons: The discussion was over a year ago, but the consensus was that in RAW the combo should work, but look it up if you're interested in the specifics, nobody uses the combo so it's more of a criosity :)

I would rate Scroll of Shielding BLUE when combined with Hexwraiths, it's a good way to keep them alive from magic missiles.

It bogs down the summary if I keep doing subcategories unless the specific situation is extreme. "This is blue with unit X green with unit Y". It gets messy.

Earthing Rod only yellow? That is beyond my comprehension. I consider this a auto-include for my level 4 MN, and it has to be at least BLUE. Losing a level 4 to the Void costs games, and we do not play to lose! :) Earthing Rod reduces the risk of losing your MN from 8,335% to 1,35%.

What Najo said.

I'll add the potion of speed is good to have on you MN when he tries to cast Purple Sun.
I think you are overly fixated on Purple Sun. Not every army can take Lore of Death. Not every army with access to Lore of Death takes Lore of Death. Not every Death caster gets Purple Sun. A character in a unit get s look out sir. A lone character fighting off a Purple Sun with a potion is too rarified for a general overview in my opinion.

Some updates to your Banner section (which seems very copy pasted from your LM handbook :) ). Banner of Swiftness is close to an auto-include on skeletons since an extra inch gives you the edge you need to park your footslogging vampire where you want him. Razor Standard should be yellow. Black Knights, Blood Knights and Grave Guards have no trouble cutting through armour to begin with and all have different banners they need more: Black Knights = Banner of Swiftness (because they lose movement when joined by vampires) Blood Knights = Flag of the Blood Keep and Grave Guards = Banner of the Barrows so that they actually hit with their petty ws3. Banner of Swiftness should be BLUE.

I'll think about it. An inch still seems like not much.

Seed of Rebirth is cool as Green but should be BLUE when combined with Dual Engines because it's so cheap for 4+ regen on a hero level character (your lord should still have 4++).

Valid, I adjust this.

Dragon Bane Gem should be BLUE since it's so cheap and gives the ability to solo charge units with flaming attacks (HERE I COME MANEATERS!).

Too situational to be blue. Not everyone is packing flaming close combat attacks.

Obsidian Trinket should only be Yellow as MR1 doesn't do much and the two more expensive options are far better (being GREEN).

But it applies to the whole unit.

Glittering Scales should be GREEN as it cuts your armour save down (not being heavy armor).

Valid, I will adjust this.

Fencer's Blades should be GREEN since they are very good on a defensively built SGK or WK. Cheap way not to get hit. Good with Glittering Scales, but lacking the armour save it's risky.

I was under the impression that Wight Kings were outfitted as cheaply as possible and SGK favored strength boosters. I'll take your word for it adjust it.

Sword of Swiftslaying only YELLOW? It should be BLUE since it is the only way to make a baby-blender. With only 50 points to spend on powers there is no other way to give a baby vamp RF AND ASF... really good weapon.

Hadn't considered mini blenders, I'll modify that.
 
Lichbone Pennant for the BK Bus for me. I run with the Book in there so they're plenty quick as is and a 3+ ward against any magic for my vamp is clutch.
 
Most of the time, that would be correct, but occasionally the blender has to accept a challenge (being the only one available) in order to generate any combat resolution at all. Or maybe he's fighting those pesky fireborn elves...

The rest of the time our champions are accepting. Or a wight king. Not a blender. Keep blender's path to rank and file clear. If its not, you risk losing the combat. Vampires should always have body guard. That's why we let them charge us, accept challenge with unit champion and then when healing next turn, heal the champion back to accept again.
 
As I said earlier, a project like this is by default arbitrary/subjective because it's so dependent on meta and play style. I agree, that some of my arguments are one-sided, and perhaps cookie-cutter, but if we devolve into complete relativism the point of making a handbook is inherently contradictory :)
 
I would put all the other lores under a sub-heading of Forbidden Lore once you do the vamp powers. Shouldn't start with them since there's almost no way to give a level 4 Wiz this power so you're stuck at level 2 in whatever you take. Might be useful in some lists such as Beasts, Metal or Heavens but overall mostly unreliable and you're giving up more useful abilities like RF, QB, Beguile, AoDM & Fear Incarnate.

Soulblight May be the best hex in the game. This is especially true for armies like VC with mobs of cheap 3/3 infantry. Widely used by competitive players over unreliable nukes. A Soulblight bubble at the right time will win you games. Compared to Shadows remains in play spells, this spell cannot be removed in your opponent's subsequent magic phase and so often lasts through two combat phases.

Doom and Darkness
is not good for every army - it is nearly useless for most armies when playing against VC, TK or DoC. For VC, it's one of the best spells in the game. The only other Ld modifiers are Aura of Dark Majesty & Iceshard Blizzard and this is x3 as potent. It also helps control magic phases by remaining in play.

This will win you combats. Example: 25 skeletons charge 3x Skullcrushers of Khorne on the flank. They kill 4 skeletons, you cause 0 wounds. You have banner+flank charge+3 ranks and they have a banner. You win combat by 1 + 3 D&D = 4 - 8 = 4. They will most likley flee, giving you an opportunity to run them down. If you don't catch them, they swiftstride toward the end of the table, then likely again in their movement phase as D&D cannot be dispelled yet.

Additionally, the Terrorgheist is the most feared unit in our army, and this spell nearly guarnatees 3 extra wounds to anything your screaming at, and makes Banshees (& Mortis Engines) much more potent.

Purple Sun of Xereus is a definitely a purple spell for Elves and Demon Princes, it's far too situational to be purple for VC. If you use 6 dice that's a 27% chance to miscast which leads to a 1/6 chance to kill your wizard and likely do a lot of hurt. Then its a 1/6 chance to misfire which will also do a ton of hurt (even with the speed potion trick wich is also unreliable). Especially competitively 6-dicing this will lead to a dispel scroll and a totally wasted magic phase.

Don't get me wrong, its the most overpowered piece of crap in this entire game and I think they should be ashamed of themselves for leaving such an imbalanced lore attribute, but its infinitely more potent in a high I wizard vs low I army (such as VC) than the other way around, which is often the case since Elves and WoC are some of the most popular and competitive armies.

Sword of Swift Slaying allows the infinitely useful ASF while saving the vampire power points, which are often maxed out since there's so many good ones. A RF+SoSS vampire hero is a wonderful mini-blender and still has points for other items (Dispel Scroll, Book of Arkhan, OTS, etc)

Charmed Shield – for 5 points you are almost guaranteed to ignore the first warmachine pointed at your generals head in hopes to end the game on turn 1. You can take it with any weapon since 2-handed only removes the shield in close combat. at the very least it removes one hit in close combat. You will never regret taking this every game, and is extremely important for our general.

Talisman of Preservation is the most imporant and invaluable item for your general and is taken by nearly every general without a ward. For no army is this more important than VC.

Vanhel’s Danse Macabre VC can't march away from our general. They are slow. They have laughable WS. They cant do anything outside of melee. This one spell fills in all the gaps. Good players make sure they have this every game, many great players take Book of Arkhan as well. Without it, you are dead in the water vs avoidance lists or armies hiding on the back of the table. The use of this spell will dictate whether you win or lose games.
 
As I said earlier, a project like this is by default arbitrary/subjective because it's so dependent on meta and play style. I agree, that some of my arguments are one-sided, and perhaps cookie-cutter, but if we devolve into complete relativism the point of making a handbook is inherently contradictory :)
I agree you can't have every view and playstyle. But multiple data points reign in the one-sidedness and adds value to the guide. Picking some valid but diverse play styles and taking their views into consideration rounds out the guide. You are obviously a good general, and most of your advice is rock solid. But for example, you auto include earthing rod where I auto include black periapt or you use death lore more where I am big on vampire lore exclusively. I play competitve and at pro level, win majority of my games as I'm sure you do too. So reflecting that variety and shared wisdom in the guide is important. Johnny Crass is another good example of a solid general with a different play style. He's the guy that made shadow skeletons famous. Just be willing to incorporate some suggestions please, I like to see the guide be well rounded.
 

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