Mini-Blenders and HQ set ups @ ~2-2.5k

[Banat]

There's a lot of love for Blender Lords out there, and rightly so. However extra care must be taken when kitting out their little brothers and sisters, as they only have 50pts worth of Vampire Bloodlines and 50pts of magic items to take. Different stats of course come into play.

a) What set ups do people use for their mini blenders?

Secondly, ideally I like to play tactics to try to dominate the Magic phase, which would suggest either a Master Necro Lord or a MotBA/Dark Acolyte/Black Periapt Vampire Lord.

b) Which set up would be ideal for maximising Magic (baring in mind synergy with the two mini Blender Lords)? And are there any better Vampire Lord kit-outs for trying to dominate magic?

c) Do I need two mini-blenders? What if I could squeeze a Blender Lord AND a Master Necro in?

I guess generally I'm just struggling with a decent HQ set up at 2.5K.

Currently playing around with:

- Master Necromancer, Lvl4, MotD, Black Periapt, Talisman of Preservation
- Vampire Hero, Lvl1 LoV, Book of Arkhan, Hvy Armour, Shield, Red Fury, Sword of Swift Slaying
- Vampire Hero, Lvl1 LoS, Dispel Scroll, Hvy Armour, Shield, Red Fury, Gold Sigil Sword (next best thing I can get to give him ASF).

Mortis Engine's Blasphemous Tome + Lvl4 will mean most LoV spells on one die, minimising miscast possibility and leaving more die to go into the Black Periapt.

 

[najo]

I'm a big proponent of black periapt (its auto include for me) and currently my main list is using a mortis engine to buff my vampire lore.

Keep in mind, if you are one dicing spells, a natural roll of 1 or 2 breaks the wizards concentration. So you have a 33.33% chance to fail each spell. With two dicing, you have a 1 in 36 chance or a 2.78% chance.

Now, for your questions:

I play very aggressive, magic heavy, in your face vampire army. I typically play 2800 points. I usually run a vampire lord or SGK, a master necro and a vampire hero. I also throw in a banshee or wraith, as they have a lot of neat tricks of popping out of a unit and tying monsters and monstrous cavalry down all game. Either the vampire lord or MN is level 4 vampire. Then the Vampire hero is level 2 vampire. With a level 4 and 2 LoV wizards, plus black periapt, book of arkhan and a mortis engine with blasphemous tome, you will utterly dominate the magic phase. You do not need MoBA, you do not need a dispell scroll. I win 70% of my games and I have amazing magic phases, mainly because of the periapt, which has single handedly won me games.

Now, when I have to take it down to 24-2500 points, I lose the master necro. I make the vampire lord level 4, black periapt, talisman of preservation, heavy armor, great weapon, red fury, quickblood, then finish out powers depending on army. This gives me offensive blender, maximizing the magic and a 4++. Just keep him away from enemy characters, kill rank and file and heal with lore attribute.

With vampire hero, there are so many options. His main magic item will define his role. Ogre blade, night shroud, OTS, book of arkhan, etc. If you don't have a mini necro with book, then your vampire hero takes it. From there, gear him for combat. I usually give him dragonhelm, seed of rebirth or opal amulet, heavy armor and then either a shield or great weapon. If I need him attacking at Initiative, he gets quickblood. Otherwise vampire powers based on army. For example, AofDM in a scream bomb list. Regardless of his load out, I always throw the BSB on him. The 25pts is worth the reform and march test rerolls, it gives +1 in combat and reduces crumble within 12" by 1. When used right, the BSB secures key combats and allows for better maneuvering. Well worth it.

As for master of the dead, is not worth it on vampire lore heavy armies. Just build the skeletons units large to begin with. They can otherwise focus on that one necromancer's IoN and you need to count on your skeletons being durable.

 

[Banat]

As always Najo, a pleasure to read your posts. I will be posting the current army list I'm toying around with over in the Legions forum for you to have a look at. Currently Master of the Dead is there because I don't have any skeletons, and with a 40 strong zombunker (that's all the zombies I currently have made atm...) I will be needing my skellies to pop up for raise dead. Alt I switch for a smaller unit of skellies to bunker in.

The black unbeating heart of the list revolves around a Horde of Ghouls, 6 Crypt Horrors, supported by the Zombunker, Corpse Cart (for ASF) and Mortis Engine for the regen. The ME's regen buff of course works on the CC as well making it much more survivable. With a horde of ghouls, unit of CH, ME, CC, BK mini-Blenderbus (8 BKs + 2 miniBlenders) and a TG that's a fair amount of target saturation.

 

[Archamedius]

I'm a big proponent of black periapt (its auto include for me) and currently my main list is using a mortis engine to buff my vampire lore.

Keep in mind, if you are one dicing spells, a natural roll of 1 or 2 breaks the wizards concentration. So you have a 33.33% chance to fail each spell. With two dicing, you have a 1 in 36 chance or a 2.78% chance.

Now, for your questions:

I play very aggressive, magic heavy, in your face vampire army. I typically play 2800 points. I usually run a vampire lord or SGK, a master necro and a vampire hero. I also throw in a banshee or wraith, as they have a lot of neat tricks of popping out of a unit and tying monsters and monstrous cavalry down all game. Either the vampire lord or MN is level 4 vampire. Then the Vampire hero is level 2 vampire. With a level 4 and 2 LoV wizards, plus black periapt, book of arkhan and a mortis engine with blasphemous tome, you will utterly dominate the magic phase. You do not need MoBA, you do not need a dispell scroll. I win 70% of my games and I have amazing magic phases, mainly because of the periapt, which has single handedly won me games.

Now, when I have to take it down to 24-2500 points, I lose the master necro. I make the vampire lord level 4, black periapt, talisman of preservation, heavy armor, great weapon, red fury, quickblood, then finish out powers depending on army. This gives me offensive blender, maximizing the magic and a 4++. Just keep him away from enemy characters, kill rank and file and heal with lore attribute.

With vampire hero, there are so many options. His main magic item will define his role. Ogre blade, night shroud, OTS, book of arkhan, etc. If you don't have a mini necro with book, then your vampire hero takes it. From there, gear him for combat. I usually give him dragonhelm, seed of rebirth or opal amulet, heavy armor and then either a shield or great weapon. If I need him attacking at Initiative, he gets quickblood. Otherwise vampire powers based on army. For example, AofDM in a scream bomb list. Regardless of his load out, I always throw the BSB on him. The 25pts is worth the reform and march test rerolls, it gives +1 in combat and reduces crumble within 12" by 1. When used right, the BSB secures key combats and allows for better maneuvering. Well worth it.

As for master of the dead, is not worth it on vampire lore heavy armies. Just build the skeletons units large to begin with. They can otherwise focus on that one necromancer's IoN and you need to count on your skeletons being durable.

Do you run your vampire characters mounted or on foot?

 

[najo]

Do you run your vampire characters mounted or on foot?

I run them on foot.

 

[Archamedius]

I run them on foot.

Do you push for a 3+ armor or 2+ armor save (is 2+ possible on foot outside armor of silvered steel?) or are you ok with 4+/4++ for your foot slogging characters?

 

[najo]

As always Najo, a pleasure to read your posts. I will be posting the current army list I'm toying around with over in the Legions forum for you to have a look at. Currently Master of the Dead is there because I don't have any skeletons, and with a 40 strong zombunker (that's all the zombies I currently have made atm...) I will be needing my skellies to pop up for raise dead. Alt I switch for a smaller unit of skellies to bunker in.

The black unbeating heart of the list revolves around a Horde of Ghouls, 6 Crypt Horrors, supported by the Zombunker, Corpse Cart (for ASF) and Mortis Engine for the regen. The ME's regen buff of course works on the CC as well making it much more survivable. With a horde of ghouls, unit of CH, ME, CC, BK mini-Blenderbus (8 BKs + 2 miniBlenders) and a TG that's a fair amount of target saturation.

Thank you Banat, I appreciate the kind words

As for raise dead, it's most useful creating surprise redirectors to mess with your enemy movement by forcing them to reform or charge poorly. If you want to create secondary bunkers, run extra 20 man zombie pods and keep them near your IoN casters so the zombies grow. By mid game you'll have nice healthy zombie buses to do what you wish with. Kinda like plants... Or sea monkeys.

 

[najo]

Do you push for a 3+ armor or 2+ armor save (is 2+ possible on foot outside armor of silvered steel?) or are you ok with 4+/4++ for your foot slogging characters?

I used to go for that 3+ in some fashion but I find that vampires are expensive and you want to get the most bang for your fangs. So I focus on their damage output, magic and then maximum ward save. Then I make sure my vampire avoids enemy characters and kills rank and file at all costs. You want to generate combat result.

So typically, I might take a vampire lord, give him red fury, quick blood, great weapon (I get my rerolls from Van Hel's and great weapon gives me a non-magic +2 strength) then give him talisman 4++ and black periapt. I then make him level 4 LoV. Throw on heavy armor because you can. That build min/maxes my magic and damage output. He can't take on characters, but honestly if your vampire is killing characters he is not generating maximum CR. I'd rather break their unit, then run them down. Its much easier.

As for Black Periapt, it's game winning with vampire lore. If you aren't familiar with its tactics, search my recent posts regarding its use or I can answer any questions here.

So, to answer your question, I'm OK with a 5+/4++ lol

Side note: if I'm playing high enough points, the BP goes on a lvl4 MN with LoV. Then I lower my VL to level 2 and use the 55 pts to gear him up for survival and combat.

 

[Banat]

A couple of questions...

What's the purpose of the second +? 4++? Is that just shorthand for ward save?

Secondly can you take ward saves against anything (combat, shooting etc) or is it just magic?

 

[najo]

Yes it's short hand for ward save.

You take ward saves against anything, and it's unmodified.

 

[Valnir the Reaper]

Running 1 other vamp than my VL right now, he sits in the same unit with....

Lance, Barded Nightmare, Quickblood, Enchanted shield, Book of Arkhan, Dread Knight.

Guaranteed Van Hels, ASF goodness, WS8, S7 on the charge. He basically is there to add a little more oomph to my BK Bus and help mulch troops. Another 2 BK's back from the dead on solo-diced Invo doesn't hurt either.

 

[DanyDaigle24]

najo can you link your post on the black periat please I would like to read it. thanks

 

[Banat]

If

Running 1 other vamp than my VL right now, he sits in the same unit with....

Lance, Barded Nightmare, Quickblood, Enchanted shield, Book of Arkhan, Dread Knight.

Guaranteed Van Hels, ASF goodness, WS8, S7 on the charge. He basically is there to add a little more oomph to my BK Bus and help mulch troops. Another 2 BK's back from the dead on solo-diced Invo doesn't hurt either.

If you gave your Vampire a Great Weapon, would the ASL and ASF cancel each other out? In that case would it go down to initiative? Just thinking, yes a lance gives you +2 str on the charge, but a GW would give you +2 str all the time giving your Vamp some grinding potential.

 

[Valnir the Reaper]

If


If you gave your Vampire a Great Weapon, would the ASL and ASF cancel each other out? In that case would it go down to initiative? Just thinking, yes a lance gives you +2 str on the charge, but a GW would give you +2 str all the time giving your Vamp some grinding potential.

It would, but I would lose my ASF against elves, granting their characters their re-rolls and I'm boned if I don't get VHDM off. I'd have to play with it, my list is very fresh and lacks playtesting. I've been considering just dropping the vamp and adding another unit of 4 Vargheists.

 

[Demian]

An extra Blender Vampire is ALWAYS good

I like to make my Vampire Lord the meanest beast on the table (even if there are Daemon Princes and other stuff, I know..) so, that's why I always kit him to break any other character in half, regardless of how much CR he won't generate "that" turn.

And it is for that very same reason that having a second Red Fury Vampire sitting in his unit is extra helpful, because as your Lord is busy choppin' the arms off that enemy lord/hero, your other little brother can snatch 4-8 models before they even get to strike!

That's why:

- The Reliable hitter:
Quickblood, Beguile/Dreadknight/Master Strike if you like
Sword of Might/Ogre Blade (if not used), Arcane, Armor and Talismans to the taste.
Multi-purpose Vampire. Hits hard enough, has ASF and might even get a decent Ward Save or a tasty arcane item.

- The Extra blender:
Red Fury
Sword of Swift Slaying, Potion of Strength + anything else he might use. Enchanted Shield is ok.
Standard anti-infantry vampire, kinda like Conrad, but better equiped (regardless of the Sword of Waldenhoff). Once per game, you get Str8 and obliterate enemy Cavalry/Monsters in a swift stroke.

- The Champion of the Undead:
Quickblood, Master Strike
Sword of Striking + any other goodies.
Ensure you get a Hit as much as possible, then hope to get that 6 to Wound. There goes the Nurgle Prince!! Add Hellish Vigour for extra heart-pumping moments on the table.

- Lady in the Throne:
Coven Throne, level 2 Wizard
Forbidden Lore: Heavens, Aura of Dark Majesty
Lance, Charmed/Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Endurance/Opal Amulet or Helm of Discord
Just threaten the field with that Iceshard Blizzard + any other Heavens spell and ram the Throne into any unit you like and have superior fighting chance with Battle of Wills. I know, highly situational, but in this case it doesn't hurt to get even that -1 WS/BS since the Handmaidens have WS 5. Best used against mindless drones and lone monsters ( looking at you Frost Phoenixes! D: )

 

[najo]

najo can you link your post on the black periat please I would like to read it. thanks

First post: https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/most-useful-arcane-magic-item.24145/#post-375524
Second post: https://www.vampirecounts.net/threa...n-cursed-damnation-flaming.26325/#post-392881
Thread with some chatter about it: https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/sell-me-on-wind-of-death.26150/page-2#post-391335

 

[najo]

If


If you gave your Vampire a Great Weapon, would the ASL and ASF cancel each other out? In that case would it go down to initiative? Just thinking, yes a lance gives you +2 str on the charge, but a GW would give you +2 str all the time giving your Vamp some grinding potential.

I do this all the time and its amazing! Weapon is nonmagical too, so BotWD doesn't matter AND it becomes flaming with the Banner of Eternal Flame. I get the re-rolls coming from Van Hel's.

 

[Valnir the Reaper]

I'd vastly prefer magical and countered by a BotWD unit I can feed zombies until the End Times than Flaming that can be shut down by any random joe with 5 points in magic items to burn.

 

[najo]

I'd vastly prefer magical and countered by a BotWD unit I can feed zombies until the End Times than Flaming that can be shut down by any random joe with 5 points in magic items to burn.

Except that isn't how it works. 1) Vampire lord tears through elven unit fast. 2) The vampire can leave the unit with flaming banner and now has a normal sword. 3) vampire can stay in unit and destroy Beasts of Nurgle, Chimera, River Trolls and dozens of other regenerating monster type things. 4) Only characters are carrying that 5pt item and your vampire lord is wasting valuable CR by fighting him. So that shouldn't be happening.

 

[Valnir the Reaper]

Dragon princes charge your knight bus you proceed to....?

 

[najo]

Dragon princes charge your knight bus you proceed to....?

This is a trick question, I don't run a Knight bus

But..

1) If I was running a Knight Bus they wouldn't be getting charged by Dragon Princes. 2) I would have redirected the dragon princes with dire wolves, fell bats, raise dead etc all game so they are where I want them 3) I'd get the dragon princes blocked by my ghouls or grave guard or something similar, then hop my vampire lord into that unit (the one without the flaming banner) and then when they charge his unit he proceeds to tear them apart. 4) Instead of wasting his time, a banshee or wraith can block them. 5) Terrorgiest 6) Curse of Years 7) Intercept with Crypt Horrors 8) Flank them with Vargiests

All of those options deal with them.

But, let's say I was in a black knight bus with a flaming banner and my vampire lord. Let the dragon princes get close enough, and then charge the vampire out into them. Now he isn't flaming.

OR

If playing "whose in charge range" is to risky, summon up zombies right in front, boost them up with IoN and then cast a bubble Van Hel's and have the vampire leave the unit he is in and join them. Then let the Dragon Princes charge the vampire's unit.

But absolute worst case scenario. For ease, let's say both have 12 models and champions. The Dragon Princes charge the vampire lord's Black Knight bus and that bus has the flamming banner in it. Elves go first and either waste their attacks on the vampire or mostly attack the Black Knights. Against the Knights they hit first, on 3+ with rerolls. Assuming 6 wide its 19 attacks. That's about 17 hits. Then its S5 vs T4, so thats 12 wounds. Then AS 4+ for 6 wounds. Then the Vampire goes. 5 attacks on 3+ so 3-4 hits, S7 wounds on 2+ so likely 3 wounds. They get a 6AS and a 2++. So 0-1 wound. Elven Steeds then go 6A at S3. They hit on 4+ so 3 hits. Wound on 5+ so 1 wound, which is likely saved. Then Black Knights go. They do 7 attacks (assuming second rank dead), hit on 4+ so 3 ish hits. S4 so 2 ish wounds. Save of 3+, but with chance of KB maybe a 1 wound gets in, then is saved by 2++. Then skeletal steeds. Probably won't do anything. It's possible from the between the Vampire, his Knights and their steeds maybe 1 wound gets in.

So at the end of combat, DP have 6 (wounds) +1 (charge) +1 (banner) +1 (rank) = 9 CR. BK have +1 (banner) and +1 (wound) = CR2. Difference is 4. BK crumble 4, they are down to 1 model, their champion. The banner is dead. Vampire is untouched. Next turn, the vampire likely destroys them entirely. So, if the bus is deep enough or the vampire gets the most probably results, then he will remain to fight the Dragon Princes.

Think I have all of that right.

For the record, if I did run a BK bus I wouldn't be putting the flaming banner in it. I use the flaming banner trick with infantry where I can easily hop the vampire into another unit and remove the flaming from him.

 

[Banat]

I've made up a new adjective for you Najo. Kemmlarian. As in, you are positively Kemmlarian with your insights into tactical loadouts and strategy. Alternatively Mannfredian. Kemmlarian gets across the Gandlaf well of endless knowledge, Mannfredian implies Machiavellian as a bonus =P

 

[najo]

I've made up a new adjective for you Najo. Kemmlarian. As in, you are positively Kemmlarian with your insights into tactical loadouts and strategy. Alternatively Mannfredian. Kemmlarian gets across the Gandlaf well of endless knowledge, Mannfredian implies Machiavellian as a bonus =P

I'm honored! I can't decide which I like better! I will take both

 

[Valnir the Reaper]

This is a trick question, I don't run a Knight bus :tongue:

But..

1) If I was running a Knight Bus they wouldn't be getting charged by Dragon Princes.
2) I would have redirected the dragon princes with dire wolves, fell bats, raise dead etc all game so they are where I want them

You can't really say that for certain bud. Highly tuned HE lists feature a LOT of things that do chaff deletion really well. Light council, bolt thrower spam, archers for days. High magic in particular is very dangerous with walk between worlds and soul quench to lol on any chaff. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that. At any rate..

3) I'd get the dragon princes blocked by my ghouls or grave guard or something similar, then hop my vampire lord into that unit (the one without the flaming banner) and then when they charge his unit he proceeds to tear them apart.

How? This plan revolves around blocking M9 Cav with M4 infantry. That's going to be fairly rough to pull off. Especially with their loads of Reavers and/or Eagles.

4) Instead of wasting his time, a banshee or wraith can block them.

Until the unit's champion magic weapon crushes them anyway.

5) Terrorgiest

BT/Banishment/Noble on Eagle/Reaver Bow. That said it's an ideal target for the TG.

6) Curse of Years

Is great but fairly unreliable. And takes dice away from other things. Good way of dealing with them though if it can get through.

7) Intercept with Crypt Horrors

Again, M9 and they have plenty of chaff as well.

8) Flank them with Vargiests

Vargs will die like flies to the unit champ and/or the Noble likely in there.

All of those options deal with them.

Well, sorta.

But, let's say I was in a black knight bus with a flaming banner and my vampire lord. Let the dragon princes get close enough, and then charge the vampire out into them. Now he isn't flaming.

That can work to a degree. Solo Vampire can be dangerous though depending on what's in there. That's IF they get close enough and they have a longer charge range.

OR

If playing "whose in charge range" is to risky, summon up zombies right in front, boost them up with IoN and then cast a bubble Van Hel's and have the vampire leave the unit he is in and join them. Then let the Dragon Princes charge the vampire's unit.

Putting your Vampire into Zombies against DP's? Wut? That's a good way to have a LOT of zombies die and crumble out your Vampire. Van Hels just makes you strike @ I, the DP's still get re-rolls against zombies and will absolutely slaughter them.

But absolute worst case scenario. For ease, let's say both have 12 models and champions. The Dragon Princes charge the vampire lord's Black Knight bus and that bus has the flamming banner in it. Elves go first and either waste their attacks on the vampire or mostly attack the Black Knights. Against the Knights they hit first, on 3+ with rerolls. Assuming 6 wide its 19 attacks. That's about 17 hits. Then its S5 vs T4, so thats 12 wounds. Then AS 4+ for 6 wounds. Then the Vampire goes. 5 attacks on 3+ so 3-4 hits, S7 wounds on 2+ so likely 3 wounds. They get a 6AS and a 2++. So 0-1 wound. Elven Steeds then go 6A at S3. They hit on 4+ so 3 hits. Wound on 5+ so 1 wound, which is likely saved. Then Black Knights go. They do 7 attacks (assuming second rank dead), hit on 4+ so 3 ish hits. S4 so 2 ish wounds. Save of 3+, but with chance of KB maybe a 1 wound gets in, then is saved by 2++. Then skeletal steeds. Probably won't do anything. It's possible from the between the Vampire, his Knights and their steeds maybe 1 wound gets in.

This is a flawed comparison as it has A) No magic weapon on the DP Prince B) A 500+ point Vamp Lord in the unit and C) NO character whatsoever in the Elf unit.

So at the end of combat, DP have 6 (wounds) +1 (charge) +1 (banner) +1 (rank) = 9 CR. BK have +1 (banner) and +1 (wound) = CR2. Difference is 4. BK crumble 4, they are down to 1 model, their champion. The banner is dead. Vampire is untouched. Next turn, the vampire likely destroys them entirely. So, if the bus is deep enough or the vampire gets the most probably results, then he will remain to fight the Dragon Princes.

Difference is four? Wut? Difference is 7. Goodbye unit and that's with NO character in the DP's and zero magic weapon on their champion.

Think I have all of that right.

For the record, if I did run a BK bus I wouldn't be putting the flaming banner in it. I use the flaming banner trick with infantry where I can easily hop the vampire into another unit and remove the flaming from him.

Infantry heavy list means your wall of M4 will have a hard time realistically choosing its match-ups against an equally tuned and skilled HE player and list.

Responses in italics.

 

[najo]

Lol, me good at maths 9-2= 4 yuppers. Damn small screens and auto filling! You raise great points, when a get to a better device to make replies easier later today I will reply. Until then, its 4! 4!!!!