That sounds like a great way to get nobody to ever play with you again, but it may be worth it...
LoU - Summoning, Troop Types & Summoned Characters
- Thread starter VonDookie
- Start date
-
The masquerade of murder returns! A new game of Vampires Amongst Us has begun. Unmask the killers, trust no one, and try to survive the night. Find out more and sign up now!
I wish I knew magic tricks. I really want to, anytime I summon a new unit, just place my hand on the table and lift it straight up; when I remove my hand, the summoned unit is there. How mind-blowing would that be in a tournament, playing someone you've never met before. Talk about a Psycher phase in fantasy...
Hahahaha, yeah, one should only play Nagash against other annoying opponents, who brag and use cheap tricks all the time, instead of playing tactically and fun.
For all other matters, a list of clear options for summoning would be nice, and including the "next best thing you can summon with as few tokens as possible" could open up our minds about using other summoning spells, like the Cavalry ones (how many points do I need to have Barded Skelletal Horses + Lances in a decent unit), etc.
Also.. with those powers, I'd command my units without touching them.
or, you know, disable all ranged weapons in this world so we need to return to meleeing like in Warhammer
!
For all other matters, a list of clear options for summoning would be nice, and including the "next best thing you can summon with as few tokens as possible" could open up our minds about using other summoning spells, like the Cavalry ones (how many points do I need to have Barded Skelletal Horses + Lances in a decent unit), etc.
Also.. with those powers, I'd command my units without touching them.
or, you know, disable all ranged weapons in this world so we need to return to meleeing like in Warhammer
!
You could Hand of Dust tokens (1d6) out the wazoo with nagash rather than using all of his attacks in combat, and then summon another Nagash! Would take 6 turns with perfect 6s on the Hand of Dust, though this is assuming you don't get any tokens from any other sources.
I think that's why he was asking if Nagash did happen to summon himself, would he just teleport to somewhere else within 36" of his current position. Now, you can't have more than one BSB, but if you never had one on your list, could you summon one? If that one dies, could he be summoned again?
About the BSB...
Yes, I think you can summon one if you didn't have a BSB in the first place aaaaand... if the BSB dies, the logical thing would be to no longer being able to summon a character holding the BSB since it seems that you can only have 1 of those in each game, even if you manage to summon an identical Character with the exact same equipment.
This also applies to Magical Items in your force: you can't use a Dispel Scroll and suicide that necromancer, only to re-summon a Necromancer with a new unused Dispel Scroll, or a character with a Seed of Rebirth. I believe all those upgrades, once made, cannot be re-made, but that's just my point of view, based as much in RAW as I can.
Yes, I think you can summon one if you didn't have a BSB in the first place aaaaand... if the BSB dies, the logical thing would be to no longer being able to summon a character holding the BSB since it seems that you can only have 1 of those in each game, even if you manage to summon an identical Character with the exact same equipment.
This also applies to Magical Items in your force: you can't use a Dispel Scroll and suicide that necromancer, only to re-summon a Necromancer with a new unused Dispel Scroll, or a character with a Seed of Rebirth. I believe all those upgrades, once made, cannot be re-made, but that's just my point of view, based as much in RAW as I can.
I kind of did something like that...
It's quite a hefty read though =P https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/thoughts-on-summoning.27409/
Are we sure the monster summon can be used to summon monster characters? Would that not then imply that the signature spell could be used to summon infantry characters, or the cavalry spell to summon characters on nightmares?
It seems to me that the intent was probably for characters to only be summoned by the character casting of harbinger, and for other summons to all be non-characters, but I can't see anything the rules that would say as much.
It seems to me that the intent was probably for characters to only be summoned by the character casting of harbinger, and for other summons to all be non-characters, but I can't see anything the rules that would say as much.
Well, you couldn't summon a character on a Nightmare with the cavalry spell because that's an upgrade for the character; you have to summon the base profile first, then do your upgrades.
But that's a good point about the signature spell and Infantry characters. As of right now, I would say that it's an oversight on GWs part. It would be really easy for them to amend either the Harbinger entry to say that it's the only way for characters to be summoned, or the Summoning Spell entry saying that characters can only be summoned using The Harbinger. However, it could also be argued, that The Harbinger, which is used to summon characters AND monsters would be sufficient for the three mortarchs.
I thought you summoned the whole package? If the summon category restriction only applies to the initial state, than the infantry spell could be used to summon horse, chariot, or even monster-riding characters, since in all cases then the mount would be a valid upgrade option for an initially infantry based character. And that seems even more incorrect than allowing the other summons to summon characters in the first place.
the 'what you can summon' restriction is dependent on what casting value you go with. If you go for the max sig cast, you get monstrous infantry instead of regular infantry, not in addition to it. so the fact that a different casting value of harbinger summons characters has no bearing on whether the casting value for monsters allows you to do so.
the 'what you can summon' restriction is dependent on what casting value you go with. If you go for the max sig cast, you get monstrous infantry instead of regular infantry, not in addition to it. so the fact that a different casting value of harbinger summons characters has no bearing on whether the casting value for monsters allows you to do so.
Honestly, what did we expect from GW? Their entire rules writing history points to there being giant loopholes in the wording of the rules and Undead Legions is no different. The obvious intent is to have characters come from small Harbinger, monsters and such come from large Harbinger, and Infantry UNITS to come from Ryze. But they had to go and make four characters into monsters and then say all things summoned are UNITS (even characters) and that you summon by troop type, then throw a wrench in it by making one specifically for characters (which is not a troop type) without saying that we can't summon them from the troop type spells.
I'm going with NO for summoning Mortarchs with the boosted Harbinger spell, simply because that would, by precedent, allow us to summon characters on foot (who have the unit type "infantry") with the Grave Call spell, and I'm pretty certain that wasn't intended.
It would be nice to summon Manny on turn one or turn two for some added oomph to the army, but I think the spells we have are good enough already!
It would be nice to summon Manny on turn one or turn two for some added oomph to the army, but I think the spells we have are good enough already!
Infernal Skull
Wight King
Exactly, every character has a troop type. Nagash is a Monster, a Necromancer on foot is Infantry, and a Vampire on a Nightmare is Cavalry. But they are all characters, and would be summoned under the basic level Kandorak– The Harbinger spell regardless of the character's troop type, because that's the version that summons characters.
If you deviate from that logic, then any summoning spell can summon a character. Which sort of eliminates the need to specifically call out Kandorak– The Harbinger as a spell that summons characters.