2400 Undead Legions Fun List

[13ingo]

Hey guys, first list I'm posting here that I thought might be a pretty fun list and perhaps competitive?

Basically running a Vamp blenderlord, vamp hero on steeds with blood knights, and a horde of 30 grave guard /w great weapons joined by a tomb prince, necrotect, and necromancer with staff of damnation with banner of the barrows.

Vamp Lord - LVL 4, quickblood, red fury, fear incarnate, potion of foolhardiness, enchanted shield, sword of bloodshed, obsidian amulet, heavy armour, barded nightmare

Vampire - Book of Arkhan, heavy armour, shield, barded nightmare

Necromancer- LVL 2, staff of damnation

Tomb Prince

Necrotect


5 x Dire Wolves
5 x Dire Wolves
50x Skeleton warriors, full cmd
42 x Skeleton warriors, full cmd

30 x Grave Guard, great weapons, full cmd with banner of the barrows

5 x Blood Knights full cmd /w flag of blood keep

 

[Grok]

What lores are your casters on? Those characts in the blood knight unit won't get look out sirs because champions don't count as rank and file models, maybe consider dropping the blood knight champion?

I also owuld be leary of putting that many points into such a tiny unit, it screams focus fire here and win the game.

The army looks like it would look great visually on the table, but im not sure how much it could actually do in game. How do you plan to use the large skelly blocks?

 

[13ingo]

Would probably run the vamp lord on death and the rest on vampires. Not sure what you mean about not getting look out sirs? Do you not get them on the command group? If so there's still two other blood knights to use, and if worst comes to worst the characters will have a 1+ 4++ (2++ against ranged magic).

Was basically planning on using the skelly blocks to tie up units/allow the GG to flank. I know it is quite an investment in the blood knight group, but if they focus on them it allows the grave guard to move up which will also be a pretty scary unit, usually hitting on 2's with rerolls in first round of combat, with two attacks each (staff of damnation), and wounding on 2's. My main worry is actually moving up the skeleton/GG blocks as my general is likely not going to be near the units.

 

[Ehstevey]

Would probably run the vamp lord on death and the rest on vampires. Not sure what you mean about not getting look out sirs? Do you not get them on the command group? If so there's still two other blood knights to use, and if worst comes to worst the characters will have a 1+ 4++ (2++ against ranged magic).

Under Look Out Sir! You require 5 Rank and File models in the unit (i.e. not a champion or character) to be able to make a Look Out Sir! roll. If you have a unit of 5 Blood Knights, 1 of them is the Champion, hence only 4 Rank and File models and no Look Out Sir!

 

[Seneschal]

-The VL needs a solid ward or he can be taken down by death snipes and basically everything else. Talisman of Preservation is your best option.
-The necromancer is very fragile, as is the necrotect. I would drop the 'tect altogether as you can mimic his ability with LoV.
-Consider downgrading the vamp hero to a WK BSB with Nightshroud to save points as your army needs more units. With only two sources of damage, your list will have problems against enemies who can stall/divert the GG and knights.
-Continuing on with the need for more options, drop the prince. Consider bringing in units like varghiests, hexwraiths or terrorgheists. You need to bring more threats to the table than what you currently have.

 

[Grok]

EHstevey explained what I meant .

While the grave guard are a threat, that is only if they actually get in combat. If I shoot down the blood knights and your juicy characters you will be lucky to get the skellies and grave guard across the board and in combat by turn 4. lets figure 12" initially separate you, that is minimum 3 turns of movement, maybe 2 and a charge on turn 3-4.
That is also presuming that as an opponent I am not moving backwards, or away, which after I shoot down the blood knights and characters I don't really see why I wouldn't.

Then you should factor in me feeding your big slow blocks a unit or two of cheap chaff, pretty much guaranteeing they won't see combat.

If you do decide to go this route, I would strongly suggest putting more small units in similar to Seneschal's suggestions. You also should field the grave guard closer to the center. If they are flankers it makes it that much easier to avoid, just move to the other side.

Basically, foot slogging armies can work. but you need the support units to help get them into combat. With VC you also need your general near so they can march.

 

[13ingo]

Under Look Out Sir! You require 5 Rank and File models in the unit (i.e. not a champion or character) to be able to make a Look Out Sir! roll. If you have a unit of 5 Blood Knights, 1 of them is the Champion, hence only 4 Rank and File models and no Look Out Sir!

Oh.. That sorta sucks then :/ Do you know if their martial honour rule allows normal rank and file to accept challenges if there is a character in the unit? (I know they can if there's no champion, but not sure about with a character) If so its no worries and I have no issue dropping the champ.

-The VL needs a solid ward or he can be taken down by death snipes and basically everything else. Talisman of Preservation is your best option.
-The necromancer is very fragile, as is the necrotect. I would drop the 'tect altogether as you can mimic his ability with LoV.
-Consider downgrading the vamp hero to a WK BSB with Nightshroud to save points as your army needs more units. With only two sources of damage, your list will have problems against enemies who can stall/divert the GG and knights.
-Continuing on with the need for more options, drop the prince. Consider bringing in units like varghiests, hexwraiths or terrorgheists. You need to bring more threats to the table than what you currently have.

Well, flag of blood keep would give him a 4+ ward against any ranged, with the obsidian amulet giving him a 2+ ward total against magic ranged.
Perhaps I could drop book of arkhan on the vamp with blood knights and give it to my necromancer and drop the necrotect.. Will allow the GG to move faster and also reroll to hit? I would lose the staff of damnation though (But maybe throw another vamp or necromancer in with that?) And perhaps give the vamp with blood knights cursed book instead.
The vamp I was hoping to keep as like I said the lord would be running lore of death, and without another caster I would have no way to bring back blood knights.
Would a varghulf be good? I've actually considered running a heavy vampiric list- bloodstar with vamps, mass vargheists, varghulf and a heap of dire wolves with a couple of skeleton warrior blocks.. Though it seems a little fragile.

EDIT: Basically I love my blood knights so would love to build a competitive list around them, but any list I come up with seems to be too many eggs in the one basket kind of thing..

 

[Alastor]

Blood knights are just one of those units I'm afraid. To make them work well you have to put a lot of points into an already expensive unit, which means they become even higher priority for the enemy to kill.

Although blood knights are a very hard hitting unit, I'm yet to see them used well competitively. Great unit in friendly games though.

 

[13ingo]

Blood knights are just one of those units I'm afraid. To make them work well you have to put a lot of points into an already expensive unit, which means they become even higher priority for the enemy to kill.

Although blood knights are a very hard hitting unit, I'm yet to see them used well competitively. Great unit in friendly games though.

Yeah I'm starting to realise that.. I can't help but think they need to be either two wounds each or allow more than one to be resurrected at a time to be viable. Cause even in combat especially against elves or anything with ASF they just seem too fragile. I played a game where I lost all 5 in a combat, then my vamp lord crumbled (causing half my army to crumble as well). Granted I did roll 5 1's and 2's for my saves.. Maybe I should just save them for fun games with nagash and just summon them lol.

 

[Alastor]

It's up to you pal, like I said they can be a really fun, fluffy unit to play. For me they fall into the same boat as krell, a lovely fluff unit with great models that just doesn't fit very well into our army.

 

[13ingo]

It's up to you pal, like I said they can be a really fun, fluffy unit to play. For me they fall into the same boat as krell, a lovely fluff unit with great models that just doesn't fit very well into our army.

Yeah I probably won't be able to resist using them anyways. I've been using them with a terrorgheist & vargheists lately and it hasn't been too bad I just have to play it smart cause one mistake can cost me the game, just means my grave guard stay shelved when I use the knights basically.. But oh well, I've been having fun coming up with a variety of fun lists though I'll probably go broke spending the money on the models for it all! Definitely loving fantasy though (just made the switch from 40k where I was fairly new also)

 

[Alastor]

Like anything in VC you need to be thinking at least three steps ahead of your enemy to use your army effectively, when using blood knights if say this goes up to five steps ahead to ensure you get the most out of them. Running them with a TG is a good idea, people fear the terror so tend to target that before anything else, giving your blood knights time to set up a devastating charge.

 

[13ingo]

Just a thought, would this be a better list? (New FAQ with 50% lords got me thinking) I'm not really a tomb kings player so not sure how good the chariots are, just figure they'll be able to keep up with my blood knights.. Very low model count though but I could split up the chariots I guess -

Vamp Lord - LVL 4 Lore of Death, quickblood, red fury, enchanted shield, ogre blade, talisman of endurance, book of arkhan, heavy armour, barded nightmare

Vamp Lord - LVL 1 Vamp lore, quickblood, red fury, heavy armour, shield, sword of might, obsidian amulet, dragonhelm, staff of damnation, barded nightmare

6 x Skeleton Chariots

6 x Skeleton Chariots

1 x Spirit Host

3 x Vargheist /w champ

Terrorgheist

5 x Blood Knights, musician, standard bearer w/ flag of blood keep

 

[Seneschal]

Chariots can't march unfortunately. That said, I think big units like you have aren't terrible but I'd rather have more static combat resolution from ranked units as well as the support of some wolves.

 

[Grok]

I think that list looks a lot more fun to play. The units would work in tandem with each other better. The terroghiest will definitely add another fast threat, which is great. Chariots can't march, so they won't be keeping up though. Why not drop one of the vampire lords, put in a combat Tomb King to go with the chariots.

Drop one 6 man chariot unit and use those points on multiple 5 man Dire Wolf blocks?

You will still suffer vs some shooting armies, but you will have extreme speed. The dire wolves can screen your blood knights and march along side them, while the chariots perhaps advance on the other flank?

I'm not sure if Lore of Death is the best for your combat lord, perhaps try playing it multiple times and play around with the lore. I think Undeath could be useful to summon large core units while running up the side. Beasts could be solid to to boost your characters. Think there are just some other lores which may help this list more. You won't be out of combat enough to utilize death snipes, and the other spells while good aren't guaranteed.

Either way I think this list will be more competitive, without being perhaps the norm. You will still have bad match ups, but would have 2 solid combat blocks and some nice chaff.

 

[13ingo]

I think that list looks a lot more fun to play. The units would work in tandem with each other better. The terroghiest will definitely add another fast threat, which is great. Chariots can't march, so they won't be keeping up though. Why not drop one of the vampire lords, put in a combat Tomb King to go with the chariots.

Drop one 6 man chariot unit and use those points on multiple 5 man Dire Wolf blocks?

You will still suffer vs some shooting armies, but you will have extreme speed. The dire wolves can screen your blood knights and march along side them, while the chariots perhaps advance on the other flank?

I'm not sure if Lore of Death is the best for your combat lord, perhaps try playing it multiple times and play around with the lore. I think Undeath could be useful to summon large core units while running up the side. Beasts could be solid to to boost your characters. Think there are just some other lores which may help this list more. You won't be out of combat enough to utilize death snipes, and the other spells while good aren't guaranteed.

Either way I think this list will be more competitive, without being perhaps the norm. You will still have bad match ups, but would have 2 solid combat blocks and some nice chaff.

Ok, hows this?

Tomb King on chariot, shield, dragonhelm, sword of swift slaying, golden death mask of kharnut

Vampire Lord LVL 4 Lore of Undeath, book of arkhan, enchanted shield, ogre blade, talisman of endurance, barded nightmare, quickblood, redfury,

Vampire LVL 1 Lore of vampires, obsidian amulet, sword of might, quickblood, summon creatures of the night

6 units of 5x dire wolves

6x Skeleton chariots, champ, standard bearer /w eternal flame

3 x Vargheists with Varghoyle

5 x Blood Knights /w musician and flag of blood keep

Terrorgheist

 

[13ingo]

Its probably worth noting that most of the people I play against are elves, WoC or dwarves (which makes my terrorgheist sad)

 

[Seneschal]

The thing with a TK on chariot is that if the enemy pops his ride, he is stuck on foot and still attached to the rest of the unit, meaning the entire chariot group has to use his movement. It's a dumb thing that didn't exist in the previous TK book (as it specifically said the he would be moved an inch away from them) but for some reason, the author included it.

 

[Grok]

There is that risk with the Tk, but who is going to shoot him when blood knights and a Terroghiest are bearing down? Better yet, if they shoot him, score lol. Of course in combat he could be felled but by that point hopefully you are stuck in.

The 6 units of dogs is great, will let your deployment be a lot more flexible.

I would drop the sword of swift slaying on the TK for a great weapon. His initiative is super low anyway, so you won't get the reroll. Golden Mask is great, will catch people out.

Whew lot of shooting you are looking at in opponents! With this list, especially against your regular opponents, you will need to be moving in as fast as possible. I would use the dogs as screens in front of your blood knights and maybe even the chariots, so that there is at least the possibility for cover. I think some games will go very well, as you will close fast and get in combat, others you might struggle against. If you are fine with that I think this list will compliment your Blood Knight love a lot more

 

[Seneschal]

Taking out the TK's wheels will make 600+ points of the army far less useful. All you need do then is cannonball the TG and force the frenzy knights into an overrun trap. Considering that he's playing two armies with good shooting and one with a potential hell cannon, I would be concerned.

 

[Grok]

Taking out the TK's wheels will make 600+ points of the army far less useful. All you need do then is cannonball the TG and force the frenzy knights into an overrun trap. Considering that he's playing two armies with good shooting and one with a potential hell cannon, I would be concerned.

If someone shoots at the TK though, they aren't shooting at the much more important VL. Also in a 6 man chariot unit, the TK will get a look out sire against at least the first template shot, unless they focus fire, which again sort of a win situation as they are far less a threat.

Yes its a risk, but what else would you suggest? There isn't much in the way of core that is too useful if the general is running off with the blood knights, putting a character in the chariots can help them serve as a second combat block.

 

[13ingo]

It's probably worth noting that I will be running undeath and if I get casts off I'll be summoning basically right on top of the enemy. And my vargheists will also be a bit of a threat to them if they want to keep their war machines alive..

 

[Seneschal]

Well, it's a fun list but the OP wants it to be competitive too so that's why I would rather drop the TK. He costs 300 points plus and id rather spend those points on vargheists or hexwraiths.
For core, there's horse archers which are a solid choice. 2-3 units are a great addition to the majority of lists. I'd also consider static CR and banners from a few big skeleton blocks as an option.

 

[Grok]

I'd also consider static CR and banners from a few big skeleton blocks as an option.

With the general running up ahead the skelly blocks will take forever to cross the battlefield, sort of the main problem with a fast undead general and taking foot slogger units

 

[The Sun King]

Bloodknights can work cheaply; 4 Bloodknights with Banner and Musician + Banner of Swiftness is a "cheap" version that still hits hard.