Undead Legions sweet combos.

[Demian]

So, my friend finally gave me all his TK army, and suddenly I have a ton of stuff to paint and will probably not end until I'm old ( and I will play WH until citadel paint and washes cause my intoxication D: )

But such things aside, I was wondering if we have some sweet mini combos we can use that are not the typical Caket + Hierotitan + Summoning, which we all know works wonders.

So, I'll enumerate the ones I can think of, and hope to find more!!

• Tomb Guard + Corpse Cart + VDM: this one is in another thread. I know Grave Guard are superior to their Nehekaran cousins, but it's worth taking a look at. Corpse Carts are some of the worst units we have as VC and don't pair up well with killy stuff (Knights are often out of range, Grave Guard strike at Ini 3, which is bad, Horrors are decent here, but that's about it). Now with a Tomb Guard with halberds, and VDM (it can be IoN, but Danse gives them what they need) they get to be elves with Killing Blow and str 5, which is nice.
  
  
• Animated Constructs + Necrotect + Dual Engines: this is a given, yet could prove useful. The unit that easily benefits from this combo is Ushabtis, which turn into killy Crypt horrors, designed to slay rather than hold. Necropolis Knights could also benefit, provided they stay in range of the buffs, which is not hard since we don't have to ride across the board to cause damage.
  
  
• Casket of Souls + Black Coach: not game-breaking, but it's nice to benefit from extra PD to power the Evocation of Death.
  
  
• Light Coven with Dual Terrorgheists: this one is rather cheesy. Take a High Liche Priest with 2 or 3 other Light users, and cast all buffs. A typical Light coven. Now, use Pha's Protection on a Terrorgheist + Byrona's Time Warp and he gets a 48'' Death Shriek. Also, Net on any cannon to prevent it from shooting is nice.

Any more suggestions?

 

[GhoulKing505]

I've wanted to try ghouls (or grave guard/tomb guard) with the staff of damnation and either lore of light or lore of nehekara. I lean more towards the lore of nehekara. Here's why:
Imagine ghouls with four attacks a piece with killing blow. In a horde that'll give you 60 attacks that are poisoned and also have killing blow. If you also have a horde of grave guard you can use the buffed spell and give both units an extra attack from righteous smiting and give grave guard killing blow on a 5+. I know this is only if you get all your spells off but still I like thinking about it. Bring a casket to make sure you have the dice for it and so your opponent fears the caskets spell.

It's not the most competitive but it would sure be fun if you got it all off perfectly and just destroyed your opponent in a single round of combat. What do you say to that?

 

[Undying Scourge]

How about this.

Nagash + Casket of Souls + Hierotitan + 11 Necromancers with Black Periapt, Power Stone, Forbidden Rod etc.

11 channeling attempts, extra D3 power dice etc.

 

[GDD]

Good summary. I have never thought about the TK lore, so the Terrorgheist idea was new to me!

If you were to add something you could mention the TK/TP in grave guard, but that idea is obvious to anyone that knows anything about TK Just to inform beginners.

 

[estwheadn]

How about this.

Nagash + Casket of Souls + Hierotitan + 11 Necromancers with Black Periapt, Power Stone, Forbidden Rod etc.

11 channeling attempts, extra D3 power dice etc.

maybe throw a mortis engine with tome in there for the +2

 

[Undying Scourge]

Yeah but the mortis engine is rare and so are the Casket and Hierotitan.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

My rares have become exactly that. Engine + Tome, Heiro, Casket. With Periapt, I'm getting 10 dice phases out of a 3 on the Winds every phase. Sick.

 

[Undying Scourge]

Wow that's bloody brilliant! I'll have to try that myself at some point.

 

[LordTobiothan]

I haven't read the rule in awhile, but wouldn't the "and the tomb kings rode to war" rule apply to vamp characters as well? If I remember right it says characters in a tomb kings army may join a unit of chariots. Which in an undead legions army would have to read any character in an undead legions army.

Which I mention because vamps happen to have one chariot we can mount on. That just so happens to be an amazing chariot that normally sucks due to being an easy lone target. Solved by giving it a look out sir save by having 5 (or is it 3?) chariots with it.

Am I missing something or is this as awesome as I want it to be?

 

[GDD]

@LordTobiothan sadly yes. "Characters in a Tomb Kings army". The end times book lists units as belonging to "TK" and "V". The TK book was made before the ET book..

If you won't take my word for it than look at the other discussions here about this very issue. I would LOOOOOVE this to be the case, but alas.

 

[Undying Scourge]

Well, if a guy is on a chariot, what is stopping him from joining a unit of chariots? Characters can join any unit they want.

 

[LordTobiothan]

Well, if a guy is on a chariot, what is stopping him from joining a unit of chariots? Characters can join any unit they want.

Characters can't join units of monsters, chariots, or flyers

Pg. 97 brb

 

[LordTobiothan]

@LordTobiothan sadly yes. "Characters in a Tomb Kings army". The end times book lists units as belonging to "TK" and "V". The TK book was made before the ET book..

If you won't take my word for it than look at the other discussions here about this very issue. I would LOOOOOVE this to be the case, but alas.

Taken as raw like that though then no characters can join them. They may be a tomb kings unit, but they are not characters of a tomb kings army, they are a tomb kings character unit in an undead legions army.

If you could link me a thread or two where this was discussed I would be appreciative, and can stop derailing this thread I would search myself but am on a mobile device.

 

[najo]

Basically the rule in the Nagash book state that units still use their unit special rules and the undead legion defines which units come from which army book. The rule that treats all nehekharan undead as undead does not state treat tomb kings army as vampire counts army. The obvious intent is that tomb kings and tomb princes can still can join their chariot units, but it's not allowing vampire characters to join the unit. The rule that units still keep their own special rules supports this.

But we have plenty of threads discussing this. Feel free to search out and read those. Let's keep @Demian 's thread on subject and for now assume you can't put vampire chariots in tomb king chariot units as the rules essentially support that position more than not.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

For sheer lulz, UL gives an option for a fun monster mash list. I fit two Tbats, a Zombie Dragon, and three fire breathing War Sphinxes in a 2.4k list i made earlier.

 

[Demian]

Ah! Monster Mashes! yes!! we can go with many many monsters.

I'd like to take the most of the TK portion of the army, and combine it with VC to make something fun and efficient. So far, I only like sphinxes, but I'd like to see how other stuff works out, like Sepulchral Stalkers with Shadow magic (which TK couldn't get before) or.. Necropolis Knights, or even the Golems.

 

[Sception]

But we have plenty of threads discussing this.

We certainly do, but brief summary in so far as is relevant here:

Spoiler

General working theory is 'treat units from the TK book as part of a TK army, and units from the VC book as part of a VC army, for rules which refer to what army they are part of (joining skeletal chariots, access to faction items, etc)'.

This certainly feels like the best way to go, and seems to be the most generally accepted (though not universally), but there's nothing that exactly says so in the Undead Legion rules, and the intent is perhaps not quite as obvious as we might like. There are those who argue that the lack of overt permission in these cases is a deliberate omission with the goal of maintaining some benefit to playing the non-combined factions and/or maintaining some semblance of balance with non-combined factions.

Suffice it to say that any Undead Legion combos which rely on characters joining units of skeleton chariots or the use of faction specific magic items should be read with an implicit "possible table variation" warning. It shouldn't generally be an issue, but even so, in casual play you should discuss the matter with your opponent pre game to avoid arguments during, and in organized play you should discuss with the organizer before finalizing lists.

 

[najo]

@Malisteen I'm trying to avoid opinions and debate on that derailing the topic. My simple statement was to give him context and get us back on topic. Your post while I'm sure was intended to be helpful is your opinion and opens the topic for debate. Let's keep on subject or I'll have to delete posts that work contrary to this thread.

 

[LordTobiothan]

@Malisteen I'm trying to avoid opinions and debate on that derailing the topic. My simple statement was to give him context and get us back on topic. Your post while I'm sure was intended to be helpful is your opinion and opens the topic for debate. Let's keep on subject or I'll have to delete posts that work contrary to this thread.

No offense, but his summary gave the basics of the whole discussion while yours just provoked a response from me ( that I withheld posting) because of its bias for one side of the argument.

Something on topic: golden mask I believe it's called from tomb kings (no general ip, no hold your ground) on a tomb king + vamp with aura of dark majesty and fear incarnate in a unit with screaming banner.

Our fear/terror bombing just got viable, not to mention improved casket bound spell, battle of wills, and screaming.

 

[najo]

No offense, but his summary gave the basics of the whole discussion while yours just provoked a response from me (that I withheld posting) because of its bias for one side of the argument.

Except this thread isn't the place to give an summary on the whole debate as it would derail the thread. I provided the context and brief statement on the chariots then said check out the other threads for more. My purpose was to keep it as unobtrusive as possible and reflect the general consensus, which considering even many of the extreme RAW guys are agreeing with the RAI and have said its likely what the RAW means, my answer reflects the debates on the matter of chariots.

Look, ask anyone, I'm easy to get along with. I wasn't trying to put a boot down or censor anyone, just trying to keep this thread from turning into a dozen pages of six guys arguing about what counts as Army Special Rules. That just discourages members from wanting to participate in the combo ideas.

 

[PureSphinx]

Not necessarily a combo of units, but something to remember: your General is no longer required to take LoV. This means if you have a supporting caster or two with the lores that heal (LoN, LoV) you can keep your general more cost efficient by leaving levels off of him and giving him miasma to spam, or a death spell. Alternatively you could throw on some levels and give him forbidden lore for access to other lores that might work well for your army. For example, in my new list he's gonna use Lore of Beasts in concert with a Master Necro on a Corpse Cart with LoV and a Tomb Guard horde, to make them as strong as GG while still benefitting from ASF, and also in hopes that he gets savage beast to dramatically increase damage output.

 

[Macarian]

Not necessarily a combo of units, but something to remember: your General is no longer required to take LoV. This means if you have a supporting caster or two with the lores that heal (LoN, LoV) you can keep your general more cost efficient by leaving levels off of him and giving him miasma to spam, or a death spell. Alternatively you could throw on some levels and give him forbidden lore for access to other lores that might work well for your army. For example, in my new list he's gonna use Lore of Beasts in concert with a Master Necro on a Corpse Cart with LoV and a Tomb Guard horde, to make them as strong as GG while still benefitting from ASF, and also in hopes that he gets savage beast to dramatically increase damage output.

What do you guys think about this? Take a Master Necromancer (Lvl 4 Lore of Death, Hellsteed, Power Scroll) and Mortarch Mannfred with 4 Lore of Undeath spells. Now take two Lvl 1 Lore of Death casters (I use mounted vampires) to guarantee the Purple Sun on the Master Necro. If your opponent gets first turn you hide the Master Necromancer in a Cavalry Unit. On your turn 1 the Master Necromancer zooms out 20" (make sure he ends up next to an enemy unit in case of Misfire), Mannfred makes sure you have at least six power dice (with Master of the Black Arts). Six-dice a augmented Purple Sun with the Power Scroll (so any double is IF) and generate a bucket of new Power Dice. Some dice will be lost due to the miscast but Mannfred can get up to 3 back. Use the Power Dice with Mannfred to raise hordes and hordes of new Undead. Next turn your enemy Magic Phase is non-existant as he has to dispel the Purple Sun.

 

[najo]

How about this... Vampire Lord Light Council!

 

[PureSphinx]

What do you guys think about this? Take a Master Necromancer (Lvl 4 Lore of Death, Hellsteed, Power Scroll) and Mortarch Mannfred with 4 Lore of Undeath spells. Now take two Lvl 1 Lore of Death casters (I use mounted vampires) to guarantee the Purple Sun on the Master Necro. If your opponent gets first turn you hide the Master Necromancer in a Cavalry Unit. On your turn 1 the Master Necromancer zooms out 20" (make sure he ends up next to an enemy unit in case of Misfire), Mannfred makes sure you have at least six power dice (with Master of the Black Arts). Six-dice a augmented Purple Sun with the Power Scroll (so any double is IF) and generate a bucket of new Power Dice. Use the Power Dice with Mannfred to raise hordes and hordes of new Undead. Next turn your enemy Magic Phase is non-existant as he has to dispel the Purple Sun.

It's a very cool idea, there is only one problem that I see: you're throwing away 250+ points of your army. Sure, you might kill a good quarter of their army, but that might is nowhere near a guarantee, especially against elves and anything I 4 or better. Then after you account for the 150 ish points of necros and the expensive manny, you're not left with much in the way of troops, therefore hinging on 1) getting off purple sun and 2) summoning enough troops to make up for the 250 points you just sacrificed.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea and I'll definitely play test it, but I can see it running into problems.

 

[The Sun King]

Okay so here are some of the obvious combos that I have been fooling around with:

A) Vampire Lord level 4 Shadow + Two hordes of Spearletons... Mindrazor much? This will probably be my main original contribution to the UL discussion

B) 40 Grave Guard: Banner of Barrows, GWs, FC + Tomb Prince with Armour of Silvered Steel. Hitting on 2+? Yes please.

C) 40 Ghouls: Ghast + Necrotect with Armour of Destiny. Those rerolls look juicy on poisoned attacks. And it's cheap.

D) The defensive list: Okay this one is more broad, but take a fuckton of Crypt Horrors and two Screaming Skull Catapult and bombard the enemy with skulls and magic until they reach the Crypt Horrors and just grind the down.

E) Full Chariot Core... Okay nothing new here EXCEPT that we have access to several Vanhel's castings per turn! All mounted list incoming turn 2

Just some ideas.