Newbie needs help expanding Flesh-Eater Court

[wayniac]

I recently picked up Flesh-Eater Courts and bought the boxed army "King Vlagorescu's Ghoulish Host" sadly just before the General's Handbook came out and made Matched Play the de-facto standard (so I can't use the battalion that comes with it). I've only had one game with the host as part of the "Seasons of War" campaign and it was the one with monsters, but I fought a player using 2 monsters to my one and I lost.

I'm looking at what to expand, as I built the box contents exactly so I have:

* 1x Ghoul King on Terrorgheist
* 1x Varghulf Courtier
* 6x Crypt Horrors
* 3x Crypt Flayers
* 20x Crypt Ghouls

which comes to 1,200 points. I definitely need another unit of Ghouls since they are my Battleline, as for fluff reasons I refuse to have someone other than the Varghulf or King as the general. I've read that Crypt Horrors are better than Flayers overall (they certainly performed better in my game), so I'm thinking of picking up another box to make an extra Horror to fill out the unit (I built one as a Courtier, but use him as just the regular leader) which would leave me with 2x spare (I might do the same with the Flayers as I also built their "leader" as a Courtier but don't use him as such). Right now my concern revolves around the King on the big monster, because while I love him and it's an awesome centerpiece, it's also 400 points in Matched Play which is a ton.

I don't plan to buy extra units to summon as with Matched Play being the default it's unlikely to be something I'd pay points for.

Any help would be appreciated, I have not played a Warhammer game before this last time in about 15 years.

 

[Payce]

The new "Start Collecting" box of Flesh Eathers is great value for money, giving you another dragon (build it as a dragon and use the king on Foot as a Crypt Ghast Courtier, just do a headswap to a spare ghoul head), enough ghouls to have three units for the battleline (and with the Ghast, enough for the Ghoul Patrol battalion, which is awesome) and three more of whichever you want of Horrors or Flayers (or simply build three Courtiers, anything works). It should take you a lot closer to 2000, leaving you room to tinker and experiment with what you like and not.

Generally though, my advice would be to get more ghouls. They're your bread and butter. They win you games. More kings and Varghulfs aren't wrong, but being skimpy on ghouls is a shortcut to easy losses against experienced opponents.

Ghouls, man. Ghouls.

So sexy.

 

[wayniac]

As good as the Start Collecting box is, I'm wondering if I should get another regular box of ghouls, because the SC box only has 10, so I'd have 3x units of 10 for Ghoul Patrol (which is not bad) but I thought I wanted ghouls in 20+ for the benefit? However money wise it's great. I'm also looking on eBay for like the old metal ghouls to maybe use them as Courtiers (as they look bigger than the typical hunchback ghoul) and maybe the old metal Ghoul King to use as a King on Foot, as right now I'm unsure if I want the Terrorgheist or the Dragon but I can't figure out a good way to have the king model available for both mounted and foot.

 

[Payce]

I find that without a rider, the Terrorgheist is better as a pure monster. It's worse off defensively, but the sheer damage potential is a lot higher. Not discounting the dragon by any means, it can be moderately close in terms of damage if played well and far ahead in terms of survivability - with a Terrogheist already for your king, a dragon might be a good build.

As for the ghouls, I agree on the size issue - 20 IS better. However, if you're running Ghoul Patrol, it ticks in at 480 points at the absolute minimum - almost a fourth of your army. Three packs of 20 Ghouls is 600 points, almost a third. Ghouls are a heavy points investment, and you need to balance them carefully between playstyle, and not over-commiting to something that lacks the "killing power" (for a lack of a better term) to deal with top-heavy elite armies.

 

[wayniac]

That makes a lot of sense. For the mounted king would the Dragon be better overall; from my reading it looked like just a real choice between defensive or offensive? Assuming I didn't already have him glued to the Terrorgheist of course.

 

[Payce]

Actually, ignore my misinformation about the defensive bit - the dragon and Terrorgheist have the same save in the Flesh-Eater Courts book. I remembered the Grand Alliance book, where the dragon has a better save, and based my post on that. Checking it out closer, I was wrong.

Sorry for the confusion!

 

[Oppenheimer]

Don't let people tell you what is the standard mode of play. If you want to use the battalion try asking around and see if anyone will be up for some free play.

 

[ElectricPaladin]

Summoning is still useful, even in Matched Play. Consider the following: you already have a varghulf courtier, who can fly, is a BAMF in combat, and can restore models to a nearby ghoul unit. Ghoul units have high Bravery. Your king-on-terrorgiest can easily use his command ability to summon ghouls in off your opponent's board edge and onto an objective that he thought was safe. Then you fly your varghulf over, get him stuck in with a nearby unit, and keep on adding models back to that ghoul unit. Now you've put pressure on your opponent's backfield and potentially scored points, and your opponent is going to be very hard pressed to dislodge you.

 

[ElectricPaladin]

Also, don't battalions have associated points costs and are fully compatible with Matched Play?

 

[wayniac]

Also, don't battalions have associated points costs and are fully compatible with Matched Play?

Correct. They have a point value associated. But the King's summoning, which creates a new unit, would also cost points.

Unless I skipped something though, the King can't summon a new unit of ghouls, only Horrors/Flayers (or a Courtier if on Zombie Dragon) but that doesn't work in Matched Play since I would have to buy the unit I may summon in order to use it, since it's a new unit not adding to an additional unit.

 

[ElectricPaladin]

Correct. They have a point value associated.

Right. So there shouldn't be any reason you can't use them in Matched Play, right?

 

[wayniac]

Right. So there shouldn't be any reason you can't use them in Matched Play, right?

Right, as long as you buy them. But it has to be one in the General's Handbook e.g. I can't use the "King Vlagorescu's Ghoulish Host" battalion from the boxed army, since it doesn't have a points cost associated with it.

 

[ElectricPaladin]

Right, as long as you buy them. But it has to be one in the General's Handbook e.g. I can't use the "King Vlagorescu's Ghoulish Host" battalion from the boxed army, since it doesn't have a points cost associated with it.

Ah... I see. I wasn't aware that that particular battalion hasn't got a points cost. I've only ever looked at the battalions in the Flesh Eaters book, and all of them have points. That makes sense.

 

[wayniac]

Ah... I see. I wasn't aware that that particular battalion hasn't got a points cost. I've only ever looked at the battalions in the Flesh Eaters book, and all of them have points. That makes sense.

I believe the all the ones in the battletome do, but not the ones in the start collecting or boxed armies (maybe the Beastclaw one, not sure) other than the two basic starter battalions from the AoS box itself (which may be in the respective Battletomes, not sure)