AoS - 3rd What's the point of black knights?

[The Sun King]

So I've been wondering: why pick Black Knights when we have Dire Wolves?

With Black Knights you pay 24 points per model whereas Dire Wolves only 13.5 points per model. So what do we get from this points difference?

+ 2" of movement
+ 2 attacks 4+/3+
+ Charge rolls always 6 or better
+ reroll 1s on Deathless Minions
+ d3 mortal wounds on the charge 80% of the time
- not battleline (unless Legion of Blood dynasty)
- no Slavering Charge

Does that warrant almost the double amount of points per model? I mean, getting twice the number of wolves will nett you the same amount of attacks (sometimes even hitting better because of Slavering Charge). The counterpoint to this is that 10 direwolves have a harder time keeping coherent than 5 black knights.

What do you guys think? Are they worth it? What benefits and drawbacks did I miss (probably a lot)?

 

[Grave Tacticus]

The point of Black Knights is the roaming D3 mortal wounds. If anything, their competition is Endless Spells.

 

[Oppenheimer]

I like then for Legion of Blood because they are immune to debuffs as they are deathrattle and are battleline. I would never take them with any other dynasty.

 

[The Sun King]

The point of Black Knights is the roaming D3 mortal wounds. If anything, their competition is Endless Spells.

Interesting. How is endless spells their competetion?

I like then for Legion of Blood because they are immune to debuffs as they are deathrattle and are battleline. I would never take them with any other dynasty.

Good point, what armies do you face that have debuffs?

 

[Grave Tacticus]

Interesting. How is endless spells their competetion?

In that endless spells tend to also be roaming mortal wounds generators.

 

[Unas the slayer]

So I've been wondering: why pick Black Knights when we have Dire Wolves?

ATM because i have 10 wolves and 15 knights...

jokes aside, black knight were used to be a decent hitter unit, when properly buffed. Now they are more a 5-men fast screen with good coherency... slightly overpriced.

 

[Raizi]

Always take Black Knights as units of 5. They die fast anyway due to their lackluster armor save. Their purpose is to screen opponent's charges, make D3 MW in their own charges and then die. Then you summon them from a gravesite, 3 models, new D3 MW's, another screen.

Black Knights and Fell Bats also work great for forcing opponents to use Unleash Hell on them before you charge with Blood Knights, Vengorian Lord or whatever big hitter you want to protect.

 

[The Sun King]

Really interesting points Raizi! That definitely makes them a bit more appealing! I'm not sure the d3 mortal wounds is that effective though, it seems very minor, but the repeatability with grave sites somewhat makes up for it.

 

[Unas the slayer]

Really interesting points Raizi! That definitely makes them a bit more appealing! I'm not sure the d3 mortal wounds is that effective though, it seems very minor, but the repeatability with grave sites somewhat makes up for it.

Indeed! now i feel the urge to use my 15 knights again...

 

[The Sun King]

Nice Unanas - let us know how it goes!

I play Legion of Blood so I'm quite curious as to the black knights' power level. I'm still leaning towards dire wolves, but you guys have highlighted some interesting uses for the BKs.

From a fluff/design perspective I would have liked if the BKs had a 4+ save: the models at least LOOK like they would have better saves than naked rotting doggos...

 

[Oppenheimer]

Good point, what armies do you face that have debuffs?

I will grant it's a nice bonus but doesn't come up constantly.

Slaanesh: Fiends -1 hit & wound, Hellstriders with Hellscourges -1 hit

Gloomspite Gitz: Netters -1 hit, Mollog's Jabbertoad -1 hit (granted this is per model so better for a Wight King to benefit than black knights)

Ogor Mawtribes: Thundertusks & Yhetee ice aura -1 hit

And of course there's a few in SGL that I'm sure you already know.

 

[Unas the slayer]

Slaanesh: Fiends -1 hit & wound, Hellstriders with Hellscourges -1 hit

Gloomspite Gitz: Netters -1 hit, Mollog's Jabbertoad -1 hit (granted this is per model so better for a Wight King to benefit than black knights)

Ogor Mawtribes: Thundertusks & Yhetee ice aura -1 hit

And of course there's a few in SGL that I'm sure you already know.

IIRC OB can give -1 penalties to "to hit"
then Seraphon have at least a spell to target a enemy unit for a -1
Nighthaunts if they field a Mourngul

 

[The Sun King]

Awesome guys! It's always interesting to hear what armies other people face the most. In my own gaming group I face two sylvaneth players, one Seraphon (he bought my old army ), one Tzeentch, one Gloomspite Gitz, one Stormcast and a fellow Death player.