WHFB - 6th [1000pts] starting and growing from here

[Neastrane]

Hello bone collectionors,

As mentioned in my introduction, we play a slightly altered 6th edition with my friends. It means it's the good old regular 6th edition, but with units from all Warhammer edition, up to 8th, adapted for it. (If you missed my introduction -which I'll totally understand, who in the world would read that- you can find the rules here. Beware it's in spanish, so use deepl or something to navigate there: Manuscritos de Nuth - ¡Cargad!) We are using it to create more "flavourful" armies. Per example, one of my mate is playing Beastmen of Slaanesh with a small demon contingent; he's quite happy to be able to use more than 2 demons units. Speaking of which, my most common opponents are Orcs & Goblins, Dark Elves, and said Beastmen of Slaanesh.

However, since I'm still learning the ropes of both 6th and Vampire Counts, I'm sticking to the regular army book, so you won't find Corpse Cart or other esoteric devices for a while around here. My goal is to creat a 1000 points list that can grow into a 1500 or even more points without having to remove a lot of unit. I'm at the beginning of my collection, so I'd like to avoid too many expanses. I did my homework, and I read some older post around here, and also this blog (I'm pretty sure you know who wrote it) : WFB Vampire Counts Tactica. Thus, without anymore rambling, here is my first draft:

Regular army list, clan Necrach - first list posted

Heroes
Vampire Thrall - 125
Noble Blood (lvl 1 wizard, necromancy, will be the general)

Necromancer - 125
lvl 2
Dispel scroll

Wight Lord - 90
Lance, Heavy armour, barded nightmare
Enchanted shield

Core
5 Awooooo Dire Wolf - 50

20 Skenets - 215
Light armore, banner, champion (both vampire and necromancer go here)

Special :
5 Black Knights - 175
barded, full command (Wight goes there)

2 Spirit host - 130

Rare
Screaming egirl Banshee - 90

The main idea is to cover the skeletons behind the spirits host and to use summoned zombies (I mean, two spellcasters at 1000pts, it should be reliable enough) to protect one flank. Using the wolf and the banshee as chaff or to hunt warmachine / heavy units, respectively. Then, surprisingly, the black knights play the role of a hammer, going to whatever flank is opened to them. I could swap the Spirit host for more infantry, like a small pack of skeletons or 20-ish zombies, but I like to try the summoning game that necromancy offer to us, crazy Vampire players.

Regular army list, clan Necrach -new mantra BOYS BEFORE TOYS (second list after everyone advices)

Heroes
Vampire Thrall - 125
Noble Blood (lvl 1 wizard, necromancy, will be the general)

Necromancer - 100
lvl 2

Core
5 Dire Wolf - 50

20 Skeletons- 185
Full command (the musician to round up to 1000pts ; Vampire goes there)

12 Zombies - 82
Standard (Necromancer is here)

7 Ghouls 56

Special :
6 Black Knights - 182
barded, standard, champion

2 Spirit host - 130

Rare
Banshee - 90

Clocking at 1000pts !

[UWSL]I guess I'm done with this first post, I'm looking forward to see your opinions and advice.[/UWSL]

edit : tipo ; second army list added

 

[The Sun King]

Nice write up. However, I haven't played 6th in over a decade so I won't be og much help Out of curiosity what armies will you be facing?

 

[Neastrane]

Thank you for the reply nonetheless, good King.

As I said, my main opponents will be Dark Elfes, flavor cult of Khaine, Beastmen of Slaanesh, with a few demons here and there, and Orcs & Goblins, without any theme in particular. Those guys are good friends.
We all decided to start 6th roughly at the same time, so nobody has a precise army list yet. I can't really tell you much beside their rough thematic. We are trying to create a small community around here, so hopefully I'll have others armies to show to you guys

 

[Seneschal]

Hello

Your general needs a ward save, always. Crumbling is very bad. The VC army also needs it's vampire characters to deal a lot of the damage (I personally never ran necrachs below 2000 points due to their low weapon skill). Obsidian Amulet is good for what you need but unfortunately that means you wouldn't be able to take a Necrarch as your general since he/she wouldn't be a wizard without the bloodline upgrade. If you really want to use one however, get a bunker of 20 zombies and keep them behind the skeletons.

I see what you are trying to with a spirit host screen but your opponents will send their heroes with magical weapons at them and chew through them to get to your general so I'd move the spirits to a flank.

Light armor is never worth it on skeletons.

With the points from the armor, grab Sword of kings for the Wight King.

Make sure the banshee doesn't get charged. She may be ethereal and cause terror but will die to combat resolution quickly. I would keep her close to your main unit and use that scream in combat (yep she can shoot into combat)

Remember, winning combat and outnumbering with fear means your enemy will autobreak. the exception is if your enemy causes fear themselves or if they are immune to psychology (those beastmen and demons for example).

 

[Neastrane]

Thank you for your insight

I totally agree with you about the ward save. I feel like VC is in a strange spot below 2000pts in 6th. The only vampire general option is the Necrarch Thralls. But if they are the general, it means that they are running Noble Blood and therefore can't have any sort of protection due to point allowance- as you clearly wrote. The other solution is our good old Necromancer, but putting a 4+ save against magical attack only or a universal 5+ on a T3 dude seems like a heavy investment to me. I don't know which is better between a T3 W2 with a 5++ (or a 4++ against magic) or a T4 W2 naked... Another issue that arose is "who the hell shall bring the Dispel Scroll, if any ?". Let's say we decide that a warded Necromancer is better than a naked Vampire (do not read this bit without its context, please), same Necromaner can't bring a scroll. Nercarch Thrall could bring it, but it'll also mean no Noble Blood. I feel like missing the extra summoning that a Necrach Thrall brings is a shame; 2d6+1 means they successfullycast the middle Invocation of Nehek about 72% of the time.
In any case, I think it's better to keep an extra lvl 1 wizard at 1000pts than to have a Dispell Scroll (especially given my main opponents, I don't think I'll run into a heavy-magic list before 2000 points). Now the choice is either to keep all my casters unprotected and to have a Dispel Scroll; or to protect the necromancer with a 5++ (I don't think a 4++ against magical only is great at 1000 points, especially for a frail T3) and to lose said anti-magic magical paper. I gladly like your take on this reasoning.
For the zombies bunkers you suggest, do you think it's better to drop the Spirit Host and buy them, or I can just try to summon them during the first 2 turns with my spellcaster and then split them (Necromancer stays with the skeletons; Vampire goes with Zombies asap) ?

Speaking of Spirit Host, given that they stay, your advice is wise (same goes for our beloved Banshee). I'll keep it in mind I guess I'll use them as a screen only if there is too much ballista that could snipe a character, otherwise it's flank duty.

About the light armor and skellies, I'd like some details, if you don't mind. I can understand that a 5+ against ranged is indeed not that great, but 4+ in melee sounds rather good.

 

[The Sun King]

If 6th is anything like I remember it, then the reason for not taking light armor on skellies is that you might as well just get more skellies for those points.

 

[Unas the slayer]

If 6th is anything like I remember it, then the reason for not taking light armor on skellies is that you might as well just get more skellies for those points.

indeed, it was a concept that was valid also in 7th and 8th. At least with TK, so the same applies to VC

 

[Seneschal]

Yeah, what they said. Use the points for more troops.

Drop the wolves for a bunker. While it's true that you can summon one, imagine your opponent going first then getting units in position to charge you (beastmen ambush, can't remember if it's able to happen 1st turn...). Your heroes can also be shot or wrecked by fanatics before they can move into a summoned bunker. Keep non-fighter characters away from combat or your opponent will just assign attacks on them and they will fall.

-Protip- summon zombies near goblin units so the fanatics pop out in a random direction and far from your mainline.

-If your Kahnite Dark Elf friend has daemons allied in (I'm not sure what their rules are) then keep your hosts and banshee away from as they have magical attacks.

-Another big helpful bit of advice is to just make a chaff speedbump by summoning in front of the enemy. In 6th edition, summoned units don't count towards victory points!

 

[Neastrane]

I see, I see.
Thank you all for your advices, I'll rework my list with your inputs and I'll edit my first message in the next few days with an alternative list

 

[Kaptain Von]

Regular army list, clan Necrach

Heroes
Vampire Thrall - 125
Noble Blood (lvl 1 wizard, necromancy, will be the general)

Necromancer - 125
lvl 2
Dispel scroll

Wight Lord - 90
Lance, Heavy armour, barded nightmare
Enchanted shield

Core
5 Awooooo Dire Wolf - 50

20 Skenets - 215
Light armore, banner, champion (both vampire and necromancer go here)

Special :
5 Black Knights - 175
barded, full command (Wight goes there)

2 Spirit host - 130

Rare
Screaming egirl Banshee - 90

The main idea is to cover the skeletons behind the spirits host and to use summoned zombies (I mean, two spellcasters at 1000pts, it should be reliable enough) to protect one flank. Using the wolf and the banshee as chaff or to hunt warmachine / heavy units, respectively. Then, surprisingly, the black knights play the role of a hammer, going to whatever flank is opened to them.
I could swap the Spirit host for more infantry, like a small pack of skeletons or 20-ish zombies, but I like to try the summoning game that necromancy offer to us, crazy Vampire players.

What tactica? Never seen it before in my life.

The one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is how character heavy you've gone, and how little that's left you down the line. The Wight Lord isn't a bad call in bigger games but down here in 1000-ville there is one simple mantra: BOYS BEFORE TOYS.

If you're going to take the Necrarch Thrall as your General (gambler's choice, but I respect it, it's not called Warhammer Armies: Necromancers after all), you need the second caster to make full use of your Power dice, so the Necromancer has to stay, but after that - lose the Wight Lord, chuck in the Dispel Scroll, ideally lose the light armour (the 4+ save is nice to have and I haven't lost any games over having full kit Skeletons, but if you aren't working to what the models look like, BOYS BEFORE TOYS) and spend those points on a bit of bulk for your units.

An extra Knight, a bunker for the Necromancer as you really don't want him fighting and ideally another fast unit - more Wolves, Bats, Ghouls, something independent that can get out there and force choices. Ghouls would be good, they pack a lot of wallop and are hard to kill with BS-based shooting, but (as you've already read) you have to expect that they'll leg it. I advise against dropping the Wolves: you need to interdict the opponent, threaten their light stuff and break up their line with bad angles, and for that you need a fast unit or two.

 

[Kaptain Von]

-Another big helpful bit of advice is to just make a chaff speedbump by summoning in front of the enemy. In 6th edition, summoned units don't count towards victory points!

Edition bleed has struck I think: in sixth, you calculate the VP value of a new unit when it's raised. (Vampire Counts army book, page 58, second column, top paragraph - in the spell description.) You might be thinking of eighth?

 

[Seneschal]

Hmm, maybe I was confused with not counting summoned models into pre-existing units? It's been quite awhile since I've played 6th.

 

[Kaptain Von]

Hmm, maybe I was confused with not counting summoned models into pre-existing units? It's been quite awhile since I've played 6th.

Seems likely. Those definitely don't count!

 

[Neastrane]

Thank you for your help too, Kaptain Von!
Using this post to thank you for your blog! It's your work that helps me to pick VC and to find Carpe Noctem in the first place.

I edited my first message with a new list, cooked with everyone advices (It wasn't that hard actually, since your ideas all go in the same direction of "add more corpses my duuude"). For the sake of simplicity, I'll copy it here:

Heroes
Vampire Thrall - 125
Noble Blood (lvl 1 wizard, necromancy, will be the general)

Necromancer - 100
lvl 2

Core
5 Dire Wolf - 50

20 Skeletons- 185
Full command (the musician to round up to 1000pts ; Vampire goes there)

12 Zombies - 82
Standard (Necromancer is here)

7 Ghouls 56

Special :
6 Black Knights - 182
barded, standard, champion

2 Spirit host - 130

Rare
Banshee - 90

It sounds way better now; it'll be my to-build army for my first 1000pts games. Thank you all once again for your precious help!
You can expect me to create a new thread in the army showcase part of the forum in the next week