1000pt Beginner Army

[Fumico83]

I am currently in the process of getting my brother and his son into warhammer with the former going lizardmen and latter going VC. I personally play Skaven but am trying to help them as much as I can along the way so they have asked my to make a beginners list for each of them at around 1000pts. Lizardmen list was easy as it is fairly straight forward list but the dynamics of Vampires is somewhat different to me and I wanted to pass a list by those more knowledgeable than I.

Anyways the list is designed to give him a good base to build an army from without going overboard on anything.

Heroes
Vampire with Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Flayed Hauberk and Black Periapt
Wight King with Bsb, Skeletal steed, Enchanted Shield and Sword of Kings

Core
15 Skeletons with Musician and standard
15 Skeletons with Musician and standard

Special
5 Black Knights with command and banner of the dead legion
15 Grave Guard with HW/Shield, musician and standard

Total 999pts

Any advice and criticism is welcome.

 

[Grish]

That's a fairly solid list for a beginner. Personally I would go more magic heavy switching the Wight King do a Dread Knight vampire and put the black periapt on him. Sword of kings does make an excellent character killer though. Also, I'd drop some skeletons to put in a War Banner. 3 skeletons for a warbanner is a good deal.

The list is totally workable and good as is. I have other personal choices, like dropping of champion in the black knight unit, but its more nit picking than any real flaw. One thing to be aware of is that your black knights cannot march, so initial deployment/initial march move is pretty key.

 

[Anubis]

i agree that for now you should swap the wight king for another vampire... vamp armies tend to live or die by the magic phase, since our troops fight like poop and die so easily! our biggest strength lies in constantly being able to get our casulties back every turn.

i might also swap out a unit of skellies for a unit of ghouls. ghouls tend to work better against the lizzies since anything with the word 'saurus' in it just butchers our poor skellies! (as the saurus hit & wound on 3's vs skellies with their ungodly number of attacks!)
the ghouls at least need to be wounded on 4's, plus they throw back 2 poisoned attacks each, so they'll also cause more hurt to the saurus than skellies will...

it might also be worth sacrificing some skellies (since you've got a lord of the dead) to get a corpsecart w/balefire. it'll help the vamps weather the opposing magic phase a bit more, plus now those ghouls/knights/grave guard can get easy access to ASF! that would really help them boost their combat ability against the lizzies since those blocks of spear-saurus hurt alot!!!

hope this helps,
cheers!

 

[Dreadgrass]

I concur with Grish, its a nice list, a few tweaks I would recommend personally (this is all mainly personal preference)

Heroes
Vampire with Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Flayed Hauberk and Black Periapt
IS good as is, maybe swap the periapt for sword of Might for some more hitting power...
Wight King with Bsb, Skeletal steed, Enchanted Shield and Sword of Kings
again, is quite potent as is, If he's going to be doing a lot of hero fighting, Nightshroud or Gem of Blood are both great in place of enchanted shield, also, does the steed have barding? As Grish suggested, a 2nd Vampire might be good if you wanted to give your mainline more punch, but to support your cavalry and take on enemy characters, he's great!

Core
15 Skeletons with Musician and standard
15 Skeletons with Musician and standard
These are fine, but if you can find some points for banners it'd toughen them up a lot, not sure about dropping their numbers though as you only have 1 mage to raise with...

Special
5 Black Knights with command and banner of the dead legion
These are great, don't forget their Ethereal movement lets them race through difficult terrain/ forests etc with ease. Id suggest swapping out the banner of the dead legion for the underused Standard of Hellish Vigour, it'll keep them marching when their further away from the battle line.
15 Grave Guard with HW/Shield, musician and standard
The main anvil around which your army revolves these are fine as is, a magic banner would be great, Warbanner would help immensely but Im not sure where to find the points...

Other things Id suggest looking into would be some more speed, Dire wolves and Fell bats are both very handy, especially when faced with fast opponents like skinks and skaven...

 

[Prometheo]

I suppose it is because of the actual models, but I cannot help wondering why you include so many musicians. In my oppinion, they are too costly for what they do, which is a conditional +1 CR. Wouldn't it be better to drop them in order to buff the skelletons units?

On the other hand, being so magic-weak I would gear the vampire with a Book of Arkhan.

 

[Fumico83]

Thanks for the comment thus far and as it stands now the only models for this army that have been put together are the black knights as they had to be converted anyways.

So are musicians really not that useful for undead, mind you I play skaven which lives and dies by musicians at times. If I take out the musicians on the skeletons and the champion on the Knights I garner enough points for a warbanner on something so where should it go? I also intend to swap the banner on the knights with the vigor banner so they are free to march. So the list would look something like this.

Heroes
Vampire with Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Flayed Hauberk and Black Periapt
Wight King with Bsb, Skeletal steed, Enchanted Shield and Sword of Kings

Core
15 Skeletons with standard
15 Skeletons with standard and Banner of the dead legion -may move this to the grave guard as it is the same points-

Special
5 Black Knights with standard, musician and banner of Hellish vigor
15 Grave Guard with HW/Shield, musician and standard

Total 1000pts

Also to give you a little more perspective on what this list is going to face here are the lists for the lizards and my skaven.

Lizardmen
Scar-vet with scimitar of the sun (+2A), light armor, shield and a Cold One
Lvl 2 Skink Priest with Diadem of power and scroll

10 Skink skirmishers with blow pipes
15 Saurus with command and spears

10 Temple Guard with command
5 Saurus Cav with standard and musician

Skaven
lvl 2 Plague priest with flail, tail weapon and poison attacks
Assassin with blade of corruption and tail weapon

21 Slaves with musician
20 Slaves with musician
25 Clanrats with shields, musician and warpfire thrower

24 Plague monks with standard, musician and shroud of dripping death
5 Gutter runners wit poison
6 Plague censer bearers

 

[Dreadgrass]

Hi again,

liking the new list, though I'd suggest dropping a rank and file model in the unit the general will join to get a champion in just that unit, Undead really need to protect their general, and with only a single caster you need to doubly so. I'd also stick the banner in whichever unit the general will be in, getting above skaven US will be VERY handy methinks!

As Lizardmen are my 2nd army, I'd like to help out with some advice there too if I may,

Lizardmen
Scar-vet with scimitar of the sun (+2A), light armor, shield and a Cold One
He's great, but Maiming shield + sword of battle is cheaper (free shield!)
Lvl 2 Skink Priest with Diadem of power and scroll
Great utility skink, in <2000pts I don't leave home without him!
10 Skink skirmishers with blow pipes
VERY handy unit! my only criticism is you need MORE lol
15 Saurus with command and spears
I'd suggest dropping the champ. only useful to bodyguard your scar vet., 12 points can buy you so much more than +1 A...
10 Temple Guard with command
Not a big fan of TG in games <2000pts, saurus w/ spears always seems to do me a whole lot better, maybe consider using them to fill back ranks of saurus and getting 2 units of spear weilding multi-attack dinomen of awesome!
5 Saurus Cav with standard and musician
If your character goes here this is fine, I'd suggest throwing him with the main saurus line though and dropping the command here to get more skinks/ saurus...

Just some advise from a grizzled old Scar Vet. maybe check out Lustria Online for more advise...? Im there too under the same name if you wanted a hand at all...

 

[Grish]

The only units I like musicians on are units that are in protracted combats; infantry. This makes it much more probable that they will tie in one round of combat to make the musician worthwhile. If you have the points, drop the musician from the black knights to get a champion in whatever unit your vampire is going in. This will protect him from challenges. Also, Biting Blade is good for 5pts on your vampire, if you can afford it.