1500 and 2000 points armies evaluation

[Prometheo]

Well, first of all, hello everyone. I have been an ocasional lurker of this forum, but only now I have considered to register and share in your collective wisdom. As it should be obvious by now, I am not a native english speaker. Therefore, I apologize in advance for my grammar butchering. I hope it is not such a problem By the way, my army book is in Spanish, so I will try to use the english terms but I cannot promise I will not let some personal translation to slip.

Well, the second part of this post is, of course, to introduce you my armies and let you dissect them in order to make them playable. As I already have got a Bretonnia army, I try to stay away from cavalry units as much as I can. Therefore, my shock power must come from flanking support units, characters, and chariots/monsters. As some of the people I play with prefer to play 1500 points and other 2000, I usually try to make two lists so I can accomodate to both.

The 1500 points army is as follows:

Characters:
Vampire (Alexandra) * Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Book of Arkhan, Black Periapt
Vampire (Dianna) ** Red Fury, Tomb Sword, Flayed Hauberk
Necromancer *** 2 additional spells, Corpse Cart, 2x Dispell Scroll

Basic Units
Skeletons ***, ** 18, champion and standard with Banner of Battle
Ghouls 10, champion
Ghouls 10, champion
Dire Wolves 5
Dire Wolves 5

Special Units
Grave Guard * 15, great weapon, Champion and Standard
Fell Bats 3

Rare Units
Varghulf


The basic strategy is to have 2 self sufficient units (growable skeletons block with necro cart and fighting vampire, and grave guard with casting vampire) holding the center of the line and advancing, supported on both sides by both ghoul units (which include champions for challenge purposes).

I include two 5 wolves units for screening and emergency flanking, as needed, and a 3 fell bats + Varghulf group for lone character sniping and warmachine hunting.

I am worried about the small size of my units, tho, and that I might be a bit short on magic (just 2+1+2+1=6 PD plus bound spell). Also, I don't know if the ghoul units could not become a hindrance for resolution against shock units.


The 2000 points version is pretty similar. It is

Characters:
Vampire Lord (Alexandra) * Additional level, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Shroud of Night, Book of Arkhan, Black Periapt
Vampire (Dianna) ** Red Fury, Tomb Sword, Flayed Hauberk
Necromancer *** 2 additional spells, Corpse Cart, 2x Dispell Scroll

Basic Units
Skeletons ***, ** 26, champion and standard with Banner of Battle
Ghouls 10, champion
Ghouls 10, champion
Dire Wolves 5
Dire Wolves 5
Dire Wolves 5

Special Units
Grave Guard * 15, great weapon, Champion and Standard
Fell Bats 3

Rare Units
Varghulf
Cairn Wraiths 3, Banshee

The strategy is pretty similar. It upgrades the casting vampire, adds some skellys, and I buy an screening/march hindering Wraiths unit. As for the rest, it works the same (but I feel more confident with 2+4+2+1+1=10 PD).


Well, I am sure you can give me some advice, specially concerning what am I to do against a Bretonnia or Chaos army charging me. Against my GF's dwarves it is not doing badly, but I am scared of more offensive armies.

Thanks in advance!


Edit: I forgot to mention that I will probably face a Skryre/Eshin Skaven army on my next battle. That should make my Wraiths obsolete, right?

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Ok, obviously this belongs to the armies subforum. Is any moderator kind enough to move it before warning or banning me for being braindead?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Thread Moved to Correct Forum

Welcome to CN by the way!

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to help with your army list.

 

[TMS]

Hi Prometheo, and welcome to CN.

@1500 points, I think your list looks pretty good. You will need to change your setup of Alexandra though, she's currently got 2 Arcane Items - a character is only allowed one from each category. I'd drop the Periapt, personally.

I'd personally also re-think the setup of Dianna somewhat. Red Fury is usually not very impressive when used by a hero-level Vampire without the ability to re-roll misses. Add to that fact that the Tomb Blade will work only when your unit of Skeleton Warriors will drop below their starting strength and I'd say that there's room for improvement in your setup. I would recommend Infinite Hatred and the Sword of Might or Battle (depending on your enemy - might against armour, battle against hordes) to keep it cheap and simple. She could also be given the army's Battle Standard to help the Skellies out further.

Aside from that I don't see much that I'd like to change around.

My comments on your second list are more or less the same, although I would probably cut back a bit on your unit of Skeletons. You have a Lord-level caster to bring them up to size and with the Corpse Cart among them, a starting size of 26 will make for a large unit! I'd consider dropping them down to ~18 and instead use those points to boost your Grave Guard by either adding some more models or hand them a magic banner - the Banner of the Barrows is a good choice for these.

For combatting fighty opponents, you should try to isolate and contain their charges (in other words, don't let multiple units support each other). Raising a unit of Zombies at an odd angle is a good way of diverting a charge from a powerful unit of cavalry, for example. You should also try not to commit yourself to more than a few combats at any given time, to avoid spreading your magic too thin.

I wouldn't necessarily call Wraiths 'obsolete' when fighting Skaven - they can be stars of the game even when fighting Daemons! Skaven do have access to many magical attacks though and their ranked units are resistant to psychology which will make it harder for the Wraiths to pull their weight. I'd still give them a chance to prove their worth.

 

[Prometheo]

Hi Prometheo, and welcome to CN.

@1500 points, I think your list looks pretty good. You will need to change your setup of Alexandra though, she's currently got 2 Arcane Items - a character is only allowed one from each category. I'd drop the Periapt, personally.

Yeah, I noticed when I reviewed the post, but I didn't want to spam the thred. I guess I could give the periapt to the necro or Dianna, losing either one scroll or the armor (which I noticed not to be so critical in my last game versus dwarves).

I'd personally also re-think the setup of Dianna somewhat. Red Fury is usually not very impressive when used by a hero-level Vampire without the ability to re-roll misses. Add to that fact that the Tomb Blade will work only when your unit of Skeleton Warriors will drop below their starting strength and I'd say that there's room for improvement in your setup.

So much truth in that :\ Personally, I cannot help thinking on using the good old Konrad as the "fighty" vampire. I would only be missing a lvl 1 caster. But I am not such a friend of special characters, flavourfull as they might be.

I would recommend Infinite Hatred and the Sword of Might or Battle (depending on your enemy - might against armour, battle against hordes) to keep it cheap and simple. She could also be given the army's Battle Standard to help the Skellies out further.

I have never liked Sword of Might. It is so close to a 2hW or a Halbeard... Maybe for this army it is better, since we need a bloodline power to equip specialized weapons.

What would you say about this?
Bloodline powers: Infinite Hatred, Death Incarnate
Magic Items: Sword of Battle, Black Periapt (for the Alexandra thing)
BSB

It is close in points to the other configuration, also. And 4 Hating S5 attacks is interesting. As a support vampire, at least. It is a +2 CR, magic accumulating evil thing. Sexy stuff.

My comments on your second list are more or less the same, although I would probably cut back a bit on your unit of Skeletons. You have a Lord-level caster to bring them up to size and with the Corpse Cart among them, a starting size of 26 will make for a large unit! I'd consider dropping them down to ~18

That sounds sensible. Maybe I am a bit paranoid. In my last game against dwarves I could hardly get 20-something skellys up in the whole game. And I really need the outnumbering. The corpse cart gives me ranks, but it doesn't give much outnumbering advantage.

and instead use those points to boost your Grave Guard by either adding some more models or hand them a magic banner - the Banner of the Barrows is a good choice for these.

For such a small unit without a wight character, would you use it? I thought it might be a waste of points. With the points I have left after the change in the vampires, I can get the wights unit to 18 members. 19 With Dianna. If I drop a skelly I can get a full 20-US unit.

For combatting fighty opponents, you should try to isolate and contain their charges (in other words, don't let multiple units support each other). Raising a unit of Zombies at an odd angle is a good way of diverting a charge from a powerful unit of cavalry, for example. You should also try not to commit yourself to more than a few combats at any given time, to avoid spreading your magic too thin.

Solid advice. I will have it in mind in my next game

I wouldn't necessarily call Wraiths 'obsolete' when fighting Skaven - they can be stars of the game even when fighting Daemons! Skaven do have access to many magical attacks though and their ranked units are resistant to psychology which will make it harder for the Wraiths to pull their weight. I'd still give them a chance to prove their worth.

I meant that I usually use them as a missile screen for my expensiver units, and against skaven that is not an option, given how many of their missiles are magical anyway.

But you are right, they can do some sexy stuff by themselves. The point is can they do it better than a point-equivalent Varghoulf?

Thanks for the review!

 

[TMS]

Your new setup for Dianna looks promising, although I'd be wary of throwing your BSB into the fray with only a 4+ armour save (it is worth additional victory points, after all). I'd consider dropping it to save the points and the worry. Walking Death (which I assume is what you mean with Death Incarnate?) will fill the shoes nicely.

For your Skeletons, if you're worried about not getting the bonus for outnumber you should check out the Banner of the Dead Legion (you count your US as double). It costs the same as the War Banner they've currently got, making the switch nice and simple.

The Banner of the Barrows is a worthy investment for a unit of Grave Guard armed with Great Weapons - you'll want to maximize your offensive potential to make up for the loss of defence. If you could find a way to fit it in, I'd recommend it.

As for your Wraiths, I would indeed advice you to try a Varghulf in their place. I've a lot of good experiences with the Varghulf, using it for many different tasks with good success.