1500 - Undead Legions - Help!

[Hugh0803]

Hi Guys,

Recently started with a new gaming guild, after a long hiatus away from the game. Played last night and got ruined. How ruined you say? I killed a single dark rider. I have also lost 3 warm up games on the trot against WEs, at 2000 and 2400 points.

the list I brought was below and the list I am thinking of bringing next week is below that. The guild has a good mix of armies but I am just not sure how to counter all the multiple unit skirmishers (lizard men, Dark Elves, Wood Elves). any critique and advice would be much appreciated.

UK ()
Undead Legion 8th Roster (Standard)
Undead Legion 8th (Standard) Selections:
Lords ()
· Vampire Lord ()

H

Heroes ()
· Necromancer ()
, Lore of Undeath, Wizard Level 2 ()
A

· Wight King (
Core (374pts)
· Skeleton Archers (
o 19x Skeleton Archers ()
19x Bow, 19x Hand Weapons

· Skeleton Warriors (Vampire Counts) (

33x Hand Weapons, 33x Light Armour, 33x Shield

· Zombies ()
Standard Bearer (), 20x Zombie ()

Special ()
· Crypt Horrors ()

Crypt Haunter (), 6x Crypt Horror ()

Rare ()
· Terrorgheist ()


and what I am proposing, I reckon I can raise up some units using lore of undeath while using the flyers to chase fast cav. my thought is that the casket will give me an offensive spell and also help with the raising.


1500 ()
Undead Legion 8th Roster (Standard)
Undead Legion 8th (Standard) Selections:
Lords ()
· Master Necromancer ()
Hand Weapon, Wizard Level 4 ()

Heroes ()
· Necromancer ()
Hand Weapon, Magic Items, Wizard Level 1

· Wight King ()



Battle Standard Bearer (), Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour

Core ()
· Skeleton Archers ()
19x Skeleton Archers ()

Skeleton Archers ()
19x Skeleton Archers ()


Skeleton Warriors (Vampire Counts) ()
Musician (), Skeleton Champion (), Standard Bearer ()
24x Skeleton Warrior ()

24x Hand Weapons, 24x Light Armour, 24x Shield

Special ()
· Crypt Horrors ()
6x Crypt Horror ()

· Morghast Harbringers ()
Heavy Armour, 2x Morghast Harbringers (160pts), Two Hand Weapons

Rare ()
· Casket of Souls ()

· Terrorgheist ()




Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Seneschal]

Hello there

I'll critique the first list as it's closer to what I would recommend.

It seems like you need more fast units. Drop the WK and downgrade the VL for a hero vampire with Talisman of Preservation, Red Fury, heavy armor and enchanted shield.
-Take hexwraiths, they will make skinks, dark riders, darkshards and chameleons cry. Be wary of wood elves with their magical shots as they will be able to effect ethereals. If you can also grab some vargheists, I'd take them over the Terrorgeist.
-Use Lore of Vampires to heal units. Lore of Undeath can be slow to reap the rewards unless you field Nagash.

 

[Hugh0803]

Thanks Seneschal,

you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Have another game this week and will let you know how I get on, hopefully I will be able to get down to the store to pick up the vargheists before then.

I am rapidly learning the importance of movement, will post up what I am facing, what I brought and if I had any success..

 

[Hugh0803]

So, this turned out to be a great success, followed your advice and dropped terroghiest and downgraded my lords and managed to get in hexwraiths, varghiests and a casket of souls.

the hexwraiths tore through skirmishing skinks units, I successfully cast vanhels most turns so was getting double hits.
The casket did the same to monsters and used the crypt horrors to tie up a saurus block.

using lore of vampires was a great bit of advice. I just kept topping up my units all game.

now just need to see what I am facing this week, have a feeling it may be ogres so another rejig may be in order.

 

[estwheadn]

I find ogres to be a tough match up for undead, just because of the amount of attacks they can put out, and a level 4 slaughter master will out magic us unless we've got a mortis engine nearby. That means they are beating us in combat, magic and shooting. They're also faster. So to beat them you need to be able to focus. Fill your core with as many wolves as you can. Archers won't do much (needing 5's to hit and 5's to wound you are getting 1 wound out of every 9 archers per shooting phase. Big units of skeletons and zombies will not last long in a fight against ogres. If you do take one make sure it is a really large unit or 2 and do not charge anything into the ogre's flank when they are in combat wit zombies. It is not uncommon for a unit of bulls to kill over 20 zombies, causing another ~20 to pop from CR. Also people will say to bring konrad... don't do it.

congrats on the victory btw!

 

[Hugh0803]

thanks for the tips..

ah, I am aware that he normally runs only 4 units, couple of units of normal ogres (am not sure on their names sorry) a unit of cannon mean and the big mounted cannon thing.

I am thinking about running a necrolith collosus in tandem with my crypt horrors, he is only weapon skill 3 but with a great weapon and unstoppable assualt I thought crashing into the side when they are held up would allow me to chew through a few.

hopefully this should do damage to one unit

I have 15 wolves so will swap out my archers for them on that advice, I will also just bring a bus of skeletons with my red fury lord. I was thinking about bringing a unit of harbingers to slam into the side when engaged.

this has at the other

attack the shooty guys with my hexwraiths to hold them up, ideally for as long as poss.

cannon, tgeisht and casket again.

but as always I am sure it will all have to change as I gp.

thanks, I was so relived to get one under my belt.....I started collecting undead thinking I could drown people under a horde of skeletons it is only now I am understanding the nuances of our chosen army and in honest makes it far more interesting.

 

[estwheadn]

Ya, the undead have a hammer and anvil on crack type of tactics usually but can go unit for unit with a lot of things. Have your casket target the iron blaster (cannon/chariot thing) first, and then go for his general's unit. Using those wolves properly will make or break the game. I'm not too sure putting the VL in unit of skellies is a good idea. They will leak too much combat res against ogres. You're vampire will kill stuff but you'll still lose combat. If that unit gets flanked its game over for you. Definitely charge the hexwraiths into his leadbelchers. Actually charge them into anything that doesn't have a character in it because ogres don't get much static combat res. I think you would really benefit from a lvl 4 caster. If you let ogre magic go unchecked he will roll right over you. A dispel scroll is also necessary as one round of troll guts can ruin your day pretty good.

Also death magic for the win. Ideal lord setup would be low lvl LoV blender and a lvl4 lore of death master necro witha dispel scroll. I'd also reconsider the wight king as killing blow doesn't work on ogres

 

[Hugh0803]

ah ok,

will go master necromancer then, never played without my vampire crutch before but will be a bit different.

 

[estwheadn]

actually ya it's only 1500 so I'd go master necro. Maybe with a vampire bsb tooled up for combat with red fury

 

[The Sun King]

Hi Hugo, please remove points cost and special rules from your army entries

Check the army list posting rules here: https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/posting-army-lists-rules-please-read.5232/

 

[Hugh0803]

apologies, done.

 

[Hugh0803]

Thanks for the help so far guys, ended up because of reshuffling playing against Dark elves and a horrible witch elf bus, I ended up taking a level 3 necromancer, block of skeletons containing a vamp lord tgheist casket ala my first list up top.

didn't go great, the amount of attacks that big block puts out is amazing. I did manage to clean up all his skirmishers/bolt throwers and skirmishers though thanks to the multiple units I had running around though I lost all my core in one turns worth of combat and crumbling. It was a close one though.

I intend to really play magic heavy next time I face them, take a hierotitan or something.

I get this weeks match up tonight, also received my Casket of Souls through the post. It is finecast which I have never experienced before. That stuff is just a bit Sh** I snapped off a bit trying to get it into model-able shape.

 

[Jdredsox]

Hi,

At 1500 UL I've found Khalida and a massive block of archers can do wonders against most lists. All of a sudden you big block of archers is hitting on 4s and 6s are poisoned.

I don't know much about dark elves but I imagine they are T3 with little to no armour. Say you have 49 archers and khalida in a block you're looking at 35 shots, 6 poisoned hits, 11 regular hits which will be 5/6 more wounds. They may save a few but a couple of turns shooting can melt a big unit quickly.

If you want to go all out crazy on the archer block get a lvl 4 liche priest with lore of Nekhara. There's a spell that doubles your shots.

Grab your casket and take some of our CC goodies to mop up what is left.

 

[Hugh0803]

Not a huge fan of taking named characters at small level points...but I like your style, will just take a change in mind set on using archers.

one question, what is a CC goodies

I believe it is wood elves for me this eve, I haven't had much success in the past trying to drown them in skeletons but I have a idea, a cunning plan if you will. he tends to just run a bow line.

Master Necromancer
strigoi on Terrorghiest - rf - ToP
Necromancer
20x skeleton archer 3 units
zombs x 20 - just to get in the way
casket of souls
Heirotitan

basically my terrorghiest just gets stuck in and annoys him
the rest fire away and see what happens. whatever happens it should be interesting..

 

[Jdredsox]

Ah you're in luck as I dabble in a bit of wood elves from time to time.

In his bow line he will have hagbane tips at some point. They will make mincemeat of your terrorgheist, find them and kill them.

Keep the zombies near the casket, another trick he may pull is glade riders ambushing your casket and if it's on it's own you'll be in trouble.

The archers you have will do some damage (5s followed by 4s) but you need khalida to make them really nasty. Maybe swap some out for some combat units.

By CC goodies I mean combat troops, close combat goodies. Sword and board skellies with a vamp and tomb prince can be a nasty surprise for your opponent (cheap WS5 skellies).

If your opponent has a block of troops in robes with two handed cleavers shoot them to death.

I won't say any more so that you can have some tactical fun yourself, let me know how it goes and I'll see if there is any more advice I can offer post battle.

 

[Hugh0803]

Cheers Buddy,

that is all good stuff.

Will give you a right up tomorrow and let you know what happens...

I suspect from your name you may be an american so happy thanksgiving!

 

[Jdredsox]

Thanks, I'm actually a Brit but spent a while living in the states and enjoyed bringing some of the festivities home yesterday, if only GW did Black Friday .

I hope you had a good thanksgiving as well

 

[Hugh0803]

So a bit of a rundown of my games last week, had a t&t with ogres and bretts at 1000 points and a 1500 point games against WEs.

took a
MN in skelly archers x19
Vamp - mini blender in

After a very successful first turn getting a leadbelcher and cutting down half of the mournfang attention was very much turned to me, I took a brett bus to my skeletons and a bunch of ogres to my crypt horrors, after waiting a good 4 turns for my next one it was a bit of damage limitation.

unfortunately ended up third, fortunately ended up dealing allot damage.

sat had a 1500 against some WEs

MN - Mod (which worked well)
mini vamp blen

19 x skel archers
34 x warriors
20x zombs

6 x crypt
2 x mournghasts

1 x TGheist
1 x Casket

he ran with 3 units glade guard
2 units wild riders
2 units waywatchers
Eagles


I used morghasts and tghest scream to take out waywatchers behind my lines to start, the morghasts to take out his eagles. maanged to remove a unit of wild riders with my crypt horrors grindning them down (thank god for healing and a couple of buffs) and the other with my casket.

he then had a spectacular shooting and magic phase taking out my mn and vamp hero with dwellers and shooting but by then it was time for the undead to shine, crashed in with skeletons on one unit (who won with combat res) zombs on another (with screaming support) and my current fav combo of crypts and morghasts on another. mainly because I find all those monsters smashing aesthetically pleasing.

my group is a big fan of multiple small units and allot of vanguards, skirmishing and infiltration and I am finding the morghasts very useful for chewing through individual units basically hopping from one to the next causing terror and slaying away.

does anyone have any tips about high elves and dwarf armies? I will definetly be facing these guys over the next couple of weeks...

 

[Jdredsox]

Nice to see you had success against the wood elves, although there is a small part of me disappointed to see them getting squashed . I want to give T&T a go but trying to get people together for a game is proving a challenge in the run up to Christmas.

We have a good dwarves player where I live and from experience I'd say you need to expect a gunline that will out range you and can deal some serious damage. Not sure if dwarves do MSU and lots of skirmishing. Maybe some Strollaz runes, rangers and Gyrocopters. Usually a dwarves army wants you to come at it and wear you down before you hit combat.

High elves will want to dominate in magic. Take a level 4 to give your dispell phase a chance, keep the casket and be prepared for that cheap, broken banner that gives them a 2+ save against magic attacks/weapons.

Try and frustrate their magic to the point where they throw too many dice to get a spell through and miscast. Lots of poison shots/attacks are also good at wearing down a unit that your magic attacks will struggle to wound. The crazy banner can only stay in one unit, in my experience, so target other units with magic.

Silver helms are some nice cavalry but if they don't get the charge in then they are only S3, T3. Just like our skellies. 2+ AS if memory serves so you want lots of attacks on them.

 

[Hugh0803]

thanks for the tips, they all helped immeasurably, quick q, does anyone know if monstrous infantry count as infantry for the purpose of IoN?

so I had a game against chaos dwarves and brettonians since I last posted and have HEs on wed. I found Chaos Dwarves to be interesting, I took forbidden lore and lore of metal for both which worked out very well.

if you ever want to play a game of immovable object vs unstoppable force, crypt horrors vs kdai fireborn is the way to go. (I ask about the IoN because I was just healing at wizarding level +1 and he suggested it should be d6, very sporting of him I thought but he is a decent chap) I would also suggest scream/caskets against them. it is always delicious cracking open a dwarf shaped can to get the sweet meats held within especially when they have the tang that only chaos can add.

I also have something I enjoy immeasurable against sow heavy armored troops, take a dollop of necrolith colossus, add a dash of great weapon and cask a VDM for some to hit rerolls. you will create quite a dish.

with the bretonnians he has one big long train of nights, raised a unit of 10 zombs infront of them and then enjoyed watching them get re directed accross the board before a slow turnaround. fairly dishonourable I know but all is fair in love and warhammer (see what I did there, and there are obvious exceptions, moonwalking, conga lining and deploying monsters sideways for the footprint, when that occours it is really time for table flipping)


now, does anyone have tactics against high elves, what should I watch for and how should I counter it, magic heavy is the feeling above, anything else? perhaps at 1500 a level 4 with a talisman of preservation and Mod (archer spam) and a liche priest, whatcha reckon?

as always thanks for the input,

 

[Hugh0803]

Apparently a cavalry core, with a frost phoenix is the order of the day. at 1500 points.

now i just received a warshpnix so would be keen on using that.