2,400pts. vs. Skaven

[Mangaroca]

Last night I lost in a 2,400pts. battle against the Skaven (third loss in a row against the same army and player).

He got most of his army in one of the corners of the table and wouldn't move some units an inch. Two warplightning cannons were shooting from the back hidden behind clanrats and slaves, screaming bell entered a unit of stormvermin and made them immune to psychology and weapon teams as well as engineers were deployed right next to them. The only two units he sent forward (as he had to) were the doomwheel and hellpit abomination. He had a lvl4 greyseer and a lvl2 priest plus extra power dice on a roll of 5+.

In my previous battles against his army I noticed that my non-ethereal units died equally fast as if they were ethereal and also suffered from normal melee attacks. That is why, despite the general rule this time I decided to give ethereals a chance. I had 2x5 Hexwraiths to use their soulreapers rule and 3x1 Spirit Hosts for general hassling and potential charge redirection but as you already know my enemy never wanted to charge me.. 9x Black Knights with mounted Vampire (lvl1) and 39 Crypt Ghouls with one on foot (lvl1) were my main units. I made a Master Necromancer (lvl4) my army general and put him in a tower in the middle of the battleground. The army was complete with two Vargulfs one on each flank and 4x5 Dire Wolves taken to win deployment and to drag at least some of his shooting attacks away from more important units.

The time we had was limited and therefore we only managed to resolve 2,5 turns (I played two and he played three). The plan was simple - go all in and get into close combat ASAP. BK, CG and DW managed to do that in turn 2. The BK and CG were very successful against the screaming bell/stormvermin unit but because of "panic resistance" the rats kept fighting despite the fact I won combat resolutions twice... From the ethereal units I only lost one Spirit Hosts swarm. The Skaven proved to be very courageous and never fled from my Terror driven Hexwraiths.

When the alarm clock rang we started counting the points and discovered I only lost by 176 points but since I wasn't able to play my half of the third turn we will never know the true outcome of the battle. I enjoyed it but I still think that the Skaven are much more powerful an army than the VC. All they need to do is hold their ground and shoot/cast while we try to get into the combat. Even then, some spells can be cast into fighting units. On top of that multiple wounds doomwheel and units cheap as ****. Yes, their warpstone experiments may go terribly wrong but it is not the first battle that they have gone "OK".. and that already was more than enough to win.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Infernal Skull]

Don't bother with Ethereal units against Skaven. All of the Skaven shooting counts as magical, and will just blow away your expensive ethereal units.

My recommendation is to take enough wizards to counter his magic and replenish your own losses. Take an infantry-heavy list with a solid core of Grave Guard with great weapons (you'll be striking last against Skaven initiative anyway) Take some Fell Bats (2 or 3 units of 4 or 5 bats) to charge his war machines or lone characters. If he has the warp lightning cannons lined up so you can't get the bats in base to base, then look at getting around the side, or use them to tie up the HPA or Doom Wheel.

Then, just get your Grave Guard into combat ASAP, along with the rest of your battle line. Don't forget to make him take fear tests every round, and make sure you take advantage of panic checks, especially on the units without ranks or with fewer ranks, like Jezzails and Skirmishers.

You seem to have had the right idea, and I wouldn't hold this as a loss, since it was barely half of a game. Try to use large units in Horde formation to maximize attacks and maintain more ranks as long as possible. I think if you can get stuck in, you'll win the war of attrition: Your undead troops will never break and can be replenished, and his will break as soon as they lose Steadfast and drop below full static CR. If his army is deployed close together, near the edge of the battlefield, one broken unit could panic the rest right off the table.

 

[Mangaroca]

Thank you Infernal Skull!

Take an infantry-heavy list

Don't you think that he will shoot me to pieces by the time I'm in charge range? Will the Wizards bring back enough models in time? What if magic fails?

Also, are units such as Mortis Engine (or two ) useful against similar Skaven armies?

 

[Infernal Skull]

Haven't used a Mortis Engine,so I can't comment on my experience with it. I'd think getting the Regen and magic boost would help, but it's going to be a bullet magnet. Does he have a lot of Jezzails?

I wouldn't be terribly concerned about the shooting:
The Canons can be devastating, but they have just as much of a chance of hitting you with a STR 2 shot as a str 10. (Not sure how familiar you are with the Skaven rules, but the Artillery Die roll for the bounce is also the STR of the shot. And a misfire on the bounce means no damage or explosion at all.) The Jezzails

Jezzails are great for damaging ethereal units, killing high toughness monsters, and wreck cavalry's armor save, but against massed infantry, they're only as effective as bow fire. At 20 points per model, that's an expensive unit that you can almost negate by not bringing any viable targets. Massed units of Skeletons, Ghouls and Grave Guard are really the way to go. The Skaven are only BS 3, so they're hitting you on 4+, 5+ at long range. You should be able to recoup any losses with a couple Invocations.

Ratling Guns are effective, but they only have an 18" range and can't move and fire. They can stand and shoot, though, so avoid charging them. Once their parent unit is killed, they lose the parent's rank bonus to Ld.

Warpfire Throwers have a max 18" range at the end of the template, which is pretty short.

You should be able to get into charge range with enough of your army intact. Make sure your units are at least as large as his. I'm guessing 30-40 man units?) Just watch out for his redirectors and flank charges.