2000 points 8th ed with variant

[vonkrolok]

Ok guys, I'm new to the forum, not to the game. I'm trying to make some sense of the 8th edition so I'm gonna try posting a list for you to comment-
Before I start with the breakdown, some other veteran told me "You gotta come up with a strategy, then you build the list around it"... so first things first.

Strategy:
Have a shield in front of a horde or 2 unites worth of a horde that hold the main characters. Have a strong back-up unit that can help in the mid-game to get the body count up. All this should have a powerful and fast rare choice that can bit the heck out of a lot of things.

and so we start:

Core:
2x20 Zombies FC = 92x2
2x20 Crypt ghoul w/ Ghast = 168x2 (this is the horde if needed bunkered up into a 40 crypt ghoul unit with a single Ghast)
total allowance = 520 (26%)
Corpse cart (w/ necro, see below) = 100
-Balfire
-Unholy loadstone

Special:
20 Grave guard FC = 315
-Banner of Barrows

Rare:
Black Coatch = 200

Options (swap with Black Coatch):
2x5 Fell bats = 200 (fliers to run on both sides to go get the warmachines)
or
Varghulf = 175 (with 25 points worth of anything else to add)

General (Lord)
Vampire Lord = 390
Options
-plus one magic level
Items
-Fencer's blades (+1A 10WS)
-Cadaverous Curiass
-Helm of Commandment
Powers
-Dark Acolyte
-Walking dead

Heroes
Vampire = 185
Items
-Armour of the night (sorry I have Italian book, translated, 25 pts)
-Black periapt
Powers
-Summon Ghouls
-Dark Acolyte

Necromancer (on cart) = 130
-Dance macabre
-Raise dead
Items
-Shroud of night
-Dispel scroll

Wight king = 135
-BSB
-Standard of Strigos

The total, with the black coach, is 2000.

The strategy goes on: having the chance of winning the first round, moving the zombies as a first row of the army followed by the ghouls, flanked by the GG. First magic phase should definitely bring zombies to 30/40 both minimum in order to have them marching diagonally and opening the centre part of the army to the enemy. In this way the two zombies wings will swamp any flanking unit with a stunning 10WS (should anyone try to charge them before charging the central Ghoul bunker where the whole of the HQ is located saved for the Necro who rides at the back line).

So fellow Vampires... Comments?

 

[Wintermadness]

Overall a good list, but in my oppinion I would change the coach for a varghulf and drop the corpe cart, you already have VDM which is better that the carts spell, and with the 125 points to spare buy 10 ghouls so you can deploy them as a horde and summon more in the magic phase so you can get the most of the Strigos banner and use the rest of the points to increase the unit of GG, 20 is a low number for me.

 

[snowblood]

I would look at giving a ward save to you General, and maybe your hero. If your going to cast a lot of spells, then you will probably want one for miscasts.

 

[vonkrolok]

I would look at giving a ward save to you General, and maybe your hero. If your going to cast a lot of spells, then you will probably want one for miscasts.

this is an interesting point...
As for the coach: in the 8th ed the coach will be a pivoting unit since it sucks magic dices to everyone (not just within 6") at the beginning of the magic phase, so I'm expecting to have it flying by the end of the second magic phase. Plus it does suck your power dices, but also (which is most important) those of your enemy

 

[vonkrolok]

Besides: corpse cart gives ASF special rule... it IS definitely staying


One thing that is not strictly connected with this army list:

in Invocation of Nehek says:

units are regenerated D6 of wounds. Units with the Vampire, Ethereal special rule or not foot soldiers [...]

does this mean GG are raised D6?

 

[Darkblossom]

Yes indeed, GG can be raised at a rate of D6 models per casting.

 

[Banja]

General (Lord)
Vampire Lord = 390
Options
-plus one magic level
Items
-Fencer's blades (+1A 10WS)
-Cadaverous Curiass
-Helm of Commandment
Powers
-Dark Acolyte
-Walking dead

Walking dead give CR if the vampire is in combat. If you intend to use him as a combat vampire drop the helm of commandment since that wont be usable.

Besides: corpse cart gives ASF special rule... it IS definitely staying

Vanhels spell also gives First strike and gives reroll attack which I guess you dont get with Corspe cart considering the low I vampire counts have.

Better get a vampire or Necro with the Book of Arkhan and a Vanhels caster and you will get that first strike up no matter what.

 

[vonkrolok]

Walking dead give +1 CR to the faction, now that is either a wrong translation, but to me it's +1 to any combat resolution in play, not just the one the vampire is in. The general is a caster/fighter (I wouldn't need the fencer's blades otherwise to get a definite edge in the beginning of the Combat Phase).

On the Cart: embedded magic is to every unit within 6", Vanhels is to one unit within 12". The Book may disappear on a roll of 1. The best alternative could be to drop the Nightshroud and Dispell for the Staff of damnation and the Book... but it's two Arcane items on a single character... it can be rearranged with other characters...

 

[Dogmar]

Personally I would never use zombies as a core unit. They are just too bad for their costs. The only zombies on my tabletop are usually summoned by raise dead or SUH.
Also try to bulk your other core units up. 25-30 is a good starting size. maybe take one horde unit of ghouls and a smaller "detachment" for flanking purposes.
As a corpse cart cant join units any more iirc, a necro riding it will be likely to die early in the game. So my suggestion is to drop the cart and let a unit babysit the necro. With the spare points you could make your grave guard unit bigger.

 

[vonkrolok]

I see what you mean... I personally hope in the new army list zombies are made a bit better 'cuz for now the only viable alternative is too expensive... will try and add some further variation.

Just out of a curiosity, I didn't find the rule that cannonball means instant death for chariots... is that so? a black coach can now survive a big cannonball?

 

[Strig]

Thats right, Chariots are not auto killed by str 7 hits from any source anymore.

So black coach is a very good option.

- Strig

 

[AtmaWeapon]

I agree completely with Dogmar.

Zombies are for raising, not for buying. I wouldn't use my points allotment to buy zombies if they were *2* points per model, let alone 4.

Look at a clanrat slave compared to a zombie.. zombies are bad...

It's sad when you can honestly say that this is the absolute best case scenario: They're fighting skinks that fail a fear check and you only need 4's to hit and 4's to wound.

 

[vonkrolok]

Some modifications I made to the list.
Still don't have a clue as to how to get a Sv to the Lord, but at least I took away the zombies... so, on the things that changed

Core:
2x14 Skeleton warriors FC = 146x2

30 Ghoul with Ghast = 248

for a total of 540 pts and 27% of total points

Special:
27 Grave guard FC = 399
-Banner of Barrows

Lord:
Vampire Lord = 405 (20%... ideally still 95pts to 25%)
-plus 1 lvl
-Dark acolyte
-Walking death (for the CR)
-Lord of the dead (for the skeletons)
-Fencer's blades
-Cadaverous curiass
-Helm of commandment
Magic items total: 80pts
Vampiric powers total: 70pts


For a total of 1994 so still 6 points to go

 

[Ricey]

A very nice item to get for your lord if you seek a good ward save is the Crown of the Damned. If you can manage to trim just a teeny bit of points from somewhere, you can replace your helm of commandment (since it looks like he'll be in combat pretty quick anyways" with this nasty 4+ sv. Because of his Ld10 and the BSB near him, you'll find that he'll rarely (if at all) end up suffering the stupid cause.

Edit: Armour of the Night on your vampire thrall seems kind of like wasted points in my opinion, seeing as how he'll be in your ghoul squad as opposed to sitting out on his own. I would drop it for something like a Cadaverous Cuirass or other form of cheap save, which will free enough points for *gasp* the crown of the damned on your lord.

 

[vonkrolok]

The curiass is already on the Lord, I cannot put two versions of the same magic item, can I? Crown of the damned is a good option on a 10Ld character.

I solved in another way

Lord:
Crown of the Damned <-> Helm of Commandment +5pt

Hero Vampire:
Gambler's armour (Sv 6+) <-> Armour of the night -5pt

Thing that can also be avoided since I have still 6pts to be invested so the first exchange can be done even though the second won't

 

[Mikael.K]

Im a bit curious about the lord, will he be in combat or not? If he is going into combat, then drop the HoC for the crown of the damned. If he is a caster, then drop the fencers blades, WS7 is plenty. Also, I dont think that the walking deasth power grants +1 to combats all across the board, would be too powerful for what you pay for it, This is why the rules should be in english .

 

[vonkrolok]

Totally agree on that, could you please paste the English version so I can compare what kinda moron translated that into Italian?

EDIT: I should put here the re-translation into English of the Italian version

During a combat, one or more Vampires with this power grant a +1 to the CR of your own faction

so it's not "of the unit the vampire is in" or "within 12" of the vampire"... doesn't even specify whether it piles up or not...

 

[Dogmar]

@vonkrolok: Walking Death does indeed stack iirc, but in the German and English version of the rules it specifies that this bonus is only confered to the combat your vampire is stuck in.

A few thoughts on your list: It would be helpful if you posted the complete list with changes included, not only the changes themselves. That way we could discuss the pros and cons of each choice easier.
What I would change about the current list as I see it is the skeletons. 14 in each unit is way too few, even if you had a caster lord with the LotD power you would have a hard time raising them to a number where they can stand a combat. So if you dont want to cut points elsewhere and bulk the two units up, I'd advise you to combine those two skeleton units to one 28 strong.

 

[vonkrolok]

Here it comes the full list. I actually got to the conclusion of having one solid unit instead of 2 small ones before hand.

Core: (26.45%)

29 Skeleton warriors FC and spears 281pts

30 Ghoul with Ghast 248 pts

Special: (19.95%)

27 Grave guards with FC and Banner of Barrows 399 pts

Rare: (10%)

Black coach 200 pts

General: (21.25%)
Vampire lord (lvl 4 necromancer)
-plus 1 lvl
-Fencer's blades
-Cadaverous curiass
-Crown of the damned
Powers
-Dark acolyte
-Summon ghoul
-Lord of the dead
-Walking death

Hero choices: (22.25%)
Vampire hero
-Gambler's armour
-Black periapt
Powers:
-Dark acolyte
-summon ghoul

Necromancer
-Nightshourd
-Dispel scroll
-2 spells

Wight king
BSB
-Standard of Strigos

Regarding the vampire power: the exact English version is

The presence of one or more vampires with this power in a combat adds +1 to their side's combat resolution

Now this to me is either poorly phrased or simply adds +1 to whatever combat the vampire faction is involved in. Too many times we've all read "to the unit the character is in" or "to the unit the character is attached to" specifically because the rule should have had no grey area... and here they forget to specify? It's not forgetting: it's no specification at all. Plus: it costs as a BSB.

 

[Dogmar]

On the vampire power:
If that is the exact English version it might be poor phrasing, because I think (and in the German version it's even specified) that it is intended to grant the unit the vampire with the power is in a total of +1 to their combat resolution. Of course in a scenario where multiple units are in the same combat the +1 Bonus works global (meaning for the whole combat), as the combat resolution is calculated for the combat as a whole. However, it's not intended to grant ANY unit on the table that is in CC a bonus of +1 to combat resolution. If it would work that way the power would be way more expensive imo.

If you still feel unsure about that topic you should open a thread in the "laws of the night" section.

On your list:
It looks better than the first one although Im missing a fast unit to kill or at least distract scouts, warmachines and the like.
Maybe you could cut points in the hero section, as I think two caster vampires is a little too much in a 2k game.

Just my 2 cents,

Dogmar

 

[vonkrolok]

For the Fast moving units:

I was thinking to test the Coach list, mainly for armies with not so many warmachines, consider that I really believe that in the first 2 magic phases the coach is going to be flying (people will definitely aim at bringing more dices possible out of the winds of magic and this will definitely work against them with the coach). I followed a bit the debate on whether you should roll for the coach power before or after the winds of magic and it simply doesn't stand before the reissuing of a new VC book: in the previous dices were allocated by sheer counting, in this edition dices are allocated by fixed number given by bonuses plus winds of magic, after rolling the winds of magic the coach kicks in (or even, if so somebody wants, after channelling that comes after the winds)... no toad to ruin my party, if you notice I didn't even get the power that grants 2 dice in casting and dispel, I prefer level that grants you the capability to cast an Invocation almost with no dice (for Skellies and Ghouls I get a +5 automatic on the lord... almost no need to roll )

The variant (of which in the title) to this list is 2x5 fell bats going on both sides to go hunting warmachines or a Varghulf to do the same job

 

[Aramoro]

Unfortunately it is only 'Almost no need to roll' You still Automatically fail on a 1 or 2 and leave yourself unable to cast again sadly.

Aramoro

 

[vonkrolok]

Unfortunately it is only 'Almost no need to roll' You still Automatically fail on a 1 or 2 and leave yourself unable to cast again sadly.

Aramoro

That's true, I know... but still I need just one dice to cast the Invocation and that's aplenty to annoy any other dispeller out there