2000 pts mini tournament

[Ergo-Sum]

Hi,

Playing a 2000 pts Mini-tournament against Dark Elves, High Elves and Bretts. I've gone for a fairly magic heavy list, but it seems pretty light on hard hitting units, in fact, it seems rather light in units full stop! We generally don't use special characters, and its quite a cut-throat enviroment. There could well be Star dragons, ASF Blackguard or Double Hydras, so don't feel the need to hold back! [/i]all comments appreciated.

Vampire Lord
Extra level
Master of the Black Arts, Forbiden lore, Lord of the Dead
Helm of Command, Book of Arkhan, Cadaverous Cuirass
Hides in 10 skeleton bunker, cast lots of spells, pray I don't miscast!
Vampire
BSB
Walking death, Infinite hatred
Flayed Hauberk, Talisman of Lycini, Sword of Battle
Starts in large skeleton unit. Either adds loads of CR to them, or can potentially charge out if juicy target appears within 18"

Vampire
Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death (Hand weapon and shield or Great weapon - Not sure which is best)
Dispell scroll, Black Periapt
Start with grave guard, can drop back to bunker if in real danger. Casting support, give some CR against weaker troops.

Necromancer
+1 Spell - Invocation and Van hells
2 power stones
Starts in bunker with lord. Reasonabl-ish chance of casting three Van hels in one turn, if need be!

10 Skeletons
+ Champion
Bunker

20 Zombies
Quick and easy to raise. Lets me keep one flank fairly well protected

14 Skeletons
Full command
Warbanner
Lord to try to raise up as quickly as possible to get to 25+

7 Dire wolves
Doom wolf
Been on the end of a star drangon before, not good! These are here to charge it then challenge, to give me a turn to get some zombies in to it. If no Star dragon, still reasonable disruption troops

Corpse cart
Unholy loadstone
Enhances my own magic phase, especially as ASF is quite useful against Dark elves and Bretts. Balefire is a bit hit and miss as generally both Elf players are not that keen on magic

14 Grave Guard (hand weapon and shield)
Full command
Banner of barrows
Fairly hitty, and can potentially be ASF hitting on 2s with a re-roll. 14 to give the option to go either 2x7 or 3x5 with a character

Varghulf
Not had all that great luck with one of these yet. There to go after support elements though worried that 30+ RxB and reapers might drop him in one turn, even at long range and with regen

2 Wraiths + 1 Banshee
Should be murder to Bretts, but does it hit had enoungh as a unit?

So, what are peoples thoughts?

Thanks,

Ergo-sum

 

[bebopasorus]

very good list similar to my own, although i use ghouls as bunker, that's just cause i got battalion though and so have 10 spare ghouls, and since i couldn't have command anyways w/ them they make good bunker. toughness 4means 5+ to would vs those pesky elf bows who needs armor.

i like the sneaky bsb vamp, very good tatic though you shouldn't use it unless very good opportunity presents, you constructed a fine list so i imagen you can recognize soft target from maybe a easy foe that would put you in a bad place. cause if killed that vamp is 300 points + 1 extra damage from cr(well no longer -1, but same effect ultimately). even if he doesn't kill the whole unit he charges w/ 4 rerollable attacks(str5) + 2 SCR you even stand a good chance of breaking whom ever you charged, and than you have a yummy 3d6 charge down for fleeing foes.

i hope you line your gg as 2 rows of 7, not three of 5 +1 vamp i find those extra two attacks really help. but like you noted nice to be able to mix it up when nessecary.

wraiths screen varg first two turns befor charging, handy impervious arre' shield

v elfs your gg probally will be 3/3 for hit/wound, since your going for the hw/s this will leave puny elfes w/ a 6+ armor save usually though, certianly its not a reliable save but a save is a save. if your really worried on hydras hllfire + gw gg means no saves for that beasty bitch, but none for you v the BM's strike backs too.


w/ my aod/da vamp i usually give him hw/s so i get 5+1+1 armor, rather than a flat 5 which is quickly negated.

i definitely think banshee adds a nice degree of hitty-ness to an army, even high leadership ones like elfes. just keep em away from magics.

have you thought about hll fire for your skele combat unit? send them at a hydra and he only gets one save if you are a flamer, however there is a HE armor that makes flaming attacks do no damage to the wearer so if you knowtice that guy keep the hll fire skeles away from him, zombies'll pin him down well enough!

in a summon heavy army unholy load is definitely nice to have, like someone said in another post if it raises 2 gg its basically paid for its self.

your not sitting necro in cc? i know its small but the model looks so nice in there, and the paint jobs match, i guess there are stand alone necro models though

 

[Ergo-Sum]

Thanks for your quick response.

Yeah, Ghouls do look good against elves, although no armour makes them not so good against S 3 hit, plus I don't have as many Ghoul models, and want to concentrate on one master power. Plus, i could, in emergancy, push up my bunker in to a fighting block, if really needed.

i think your right about the BSB, will have to control urges to get too aggresive! Still, I might chance a charge on no command dragon princes or cold one knights, as long as i kill two, I would win by +3. Might be better than being charged by them!

With the gg 7 by 7 is the plan, just against bretts 5 by 5 might be better due to extra static CR and the narrowness of their lance formation.

Good idea with the wraiths, however, I think they are one of the few things that can reliably take on the Hydra, so I could have a situation were I want the wraiths on one flank and Varg on the other! I suppose some summoned Zombies could distract the Hydra.

Even with a hellfire banner, I just don't skeletons will do enough to Hydra. Need 4s to hit, then 6s to wound then it still gets a 4+ save. So I'll need on average 24 attacks before I wound! So, even with spears, I'll take two combat rounds to one wound, while the skeletons get utterly smashed for two rounds. I think +1 CR will be better over continual rounds, and it'll be useful against other armies and units!

I think I agree about H + shield, safer in the long run, even with a bit less killing power.

As to the necro, just think I can put the cart in combat with things like depleated dark riders and giant egales, and I've sometimes even won it, while not puting the necro in danger. Can be used as an emergency protect the bunker.

 

[bebopasorus]

my goal v hydra is usually break and run down, i dont think ive EVER actually killed one, chase and slaughter for me! hydra gets 7+3+3(less if you use a couple GoN at the beast befor hand- hes a good target for magic missles) attacks and only one round of hatred reroll, so if you give skeles reviving support they can useally dodge enough attacks the second round that the DE dont win it v SCR of 3+1+1+1


i agree on focusing on one summoning skill and indeed most of my army is skele. my ghouls are used because i hate disuse, besides they are often ignored the entire game by both myself and enemy's so i dont have to revive. i just find them to be superior in small no command units and i have models might as well use em. plus if they charge some flying kamakazi eagle at you you get double poision attack vs it. also skull staff is almost all mastery skills rolled into one, almost...(cant go above starting size is a disadvantage, but i only have as many skeletons as i field in the first place, so for me it isnt a problem)

 

[Yerun]

don't you guys think 2 + 1 wraiths is a really expensive screening unit?
I'd say take more or don't take them because they don't have enough to become a real treath.
This is what I THINK. I still have to buy that unholy awesome unit

 

[DarkDonkeyNinja]

I like the list Ergo-sum, but I think you could drop the Cadaverous Cuirass as you are so vunerable to normal attacks that an assasin or something else that uses things like poison or killing blow won't need those tricks to kill your Lord.

Also I agree with Yerun that your wraith unit is to small, I normally just use 5 wraiths,no banshee.
You could drop the Varghulf and get another unit of 2 + 1 wraiths, I personally prefer them to Varghulfs as they can dominant non-magical units and if you have two units it will be harder for your oppenent to stop them from getting where they can do the most damage.

 

[Ergo-Sum]

Thanks for everyones input to my list.

Yerun - The wraiths screening would just be if it was 100% nessesary to protect something, I would hope that they'd be able to do some damage as well. I suppose it just allows me to affect my foes plan if they go missile heavy.

Darkdonkeyninja - I think your right, I could drop the Cuirass, I'm just a bit scared of assassins in the dark elf list! Also my lord model has heavy armour and I like to be WISIWIG as much as possible, always seems to me to be fairer for your opponents that way. If I did drop it, what would you suggest I do with the extra points?

Really torn on the banshee. On the one hand, paying 25 pts to have 2 less attacks and 2 less Strength really hurts, on the other they can be kept out of a combat tht might otherwise kill them and still have impact due to the screem. Plus one good roll on the right unit eg 2+ kights can be really nasty. Hmmm, I shall have to ponder.

The Varg gives me more flexibility in set up, in that it gives me an extra drop on deployment, and allows me to put wolves and wraiths with it, possibly on the other side of the board, while still be able to march them. I have to say I've never used a wraith unit larger than 3. Seems a really risky stratergy, in that one fairly average direct damage spell could cripple them, but I'm open to the suggestion of using them. If I did drop the Varg + Banshee and got two extra wraiths, what would surggest for the other 100 pts left over?

Bebopasorous - I think your right about the Hydra. I shouldn't worry about it too much, just chase it off with static CR and try to run it dow/off the table.

Ergo-sum