2000p tournemant army

[blood lord]

vamp lord
armour of silvered steel
black periapt
forbidden lore
lord of the dead
motba

vampire
tomb blade
the flayed hauberk
infiniti hatred
walking dead

lord of the barrows
the flag of blood keep

Unit(20) ghouls
Unit(20) zombies
Horde (40) skelletons fc

unit(20) gg fc royal standard of strigos

varghulf
black coach



tactic
put vamp in horde of skellies
put wight king in unit gg

let me now what you think please

its a club tournemant and playing with 1 army list against everybody
normaly other vc players,woc,empire,lizardmen,high elfs

 

[Ciims]

Have you considered the War Banner for your skelies horde? It should help for CR. Also, if you wanna throw an ocean of dice at your opponent's face, you can consider spears for those skelies

However, 20 zombies is pretty small; they get killed very fast and CR is even more destructive for them. Getting them to 30, even 40 isn't a bad idea, and it doesn't cost too much.

Finally, I'm wondering about your main strategy. You told us where you will place your heroes, but what do you want to achieve (victory aside :tongue: )?

 

[blood lord]

i'm going to drop the zombies and use the points on a banner for the skellies.
The problem is we dont have shooting so i need to go as fast as i can in close combat i think. im just a beginner so thats why i realy need some help. have i to many heroes or take something else i realy dont now im trying to do the best i can.
Now witch the new rules i think a horde of skellies witch spears you now get 4rows that can attack?
but if it is 3 than it dont matter if they have spears because i have all ready 3rows that can fight. playing the skellis in middle of table gg on side varghulf the other side with support of ghouls. we are playing with 5 different missions
1 fata morgana
2 fog
3 traitor
4 surprise attack
5 pitch battle

somebody give me advice please

 

[Forge]

Imo dropping the armor of the silvered steel and getting an earthing rod or fitting in a carstein ring and making a small bunker unit for him to sit back in is in your best interest simply because if he miscasts and gets sucked into the warp you lose which in this edition is likely to happen.

 

[VvC]

Have you considered the War Banner for your skelies horde? It should help for CR.

Isn't it 35 points in the new edition now? o.o

 

[Count Lasombra]

The current army book point values for common magic items takes precedence.

 

[Crazeh]

See I don't get that. Why bring out a new list in the BRB with updated values on items like the War Banner and Enchanted Shield, and then force players to use the values in their army books anyway?

 

[VvC]

See I don't get that. Why bring out a new list in the BRB with updated values on items like the War Banner and Enchanted Shield, and then force players to use the values in their army books anyway?

Exactly what I thought...

It's like upping the price of a dispel scroll to 125 points and then saying "Don't worry about it, use your older piece of information instead of this newer piece."

I mean, then they would have plans to make the costs of those Items cost more or less depending on the army or slowly get around to updating everyone's as their Army Book is released? Then that sucks!

 

[BaronBloodfist]

Count Lasombra is correct the war banner does only cost 25pts so your skeletons can still take it and i would advise to take advantage of that, because a simple war banner is still just the best choice even with all those fancy "+1M or flaming attacks etc" banners around.

The reason why there are different prices is that first of all they recognized that some "common" items were not balanced in terms of costs so they changed that and increased the price of certain items in the new rulebook. Another factor is that some races get some of the common items at a higher and some at a lower price because GW thought that it would fit better in terms of fluff and intended playstyle. So if they would say "use the costs from the new rulebook" they would destroy this differentiation between races in terms of common items and harm for example VC because they are used to buy +1A swords for 15pts rather than for 25pts (just an example). If you now ask yourself whey they did not errata the items from the army books, well they approached the 8th edition with the intend not to do ANY balance changes for the armybooks, so they wont start adjusting prices of common items for different armies. I hope that was understandable


Back to the army list:
While the list is not bad i am not really happy with it either. So i will just start of with everything what concerns me.

Banner of the Barrows > Banner of Strigoi for GG. Run the numbers in Avian Combat calculator and you will see that if you fight more than one combat round the Banner of Barrows already gets better and with each round after that the difference gets bigger and bigger in favor of the Banner of the Barrows. 20GG are just not capable of defeating most enemy units within one round, since they either have less ranks (so the enemy is steadfast) or they have more ranks but not enough models in the first two rows to kill enough enemies to win the combat significantly.

Going for a mage lord plus a black coach is somewhat strange. If your lord cant rule the magic phase you are wasting a lot of points since your vampire lord is already a lot more expensive than a regular level 4 caster from other armies. With the black coach you are significantly gimping you magic phase by sucking power dice.

With spears your skeletons can indeed attack from 4 rows if you deploy them 10 wide and 4 deep, but while i have seen some people getting exited about so many attacks from speer skeletons i think that speer skeletons did suck in 7th and still suck in 8th. The reason for that is skeletons are decent in the defense and very poor in their offense. If you do not buff the skeletons they will actually perform worse against 95% of enemy units with spears than with hand weapon and shield PLUS you have to pay extra. If you say "jeah well i can buff my skeletons so that they get totally uber" thats just not true because they still are only getting decent while other units which are already pretty good in combat like ghouls or graveguards are indeed getting uber strong with buffs.#
I will show my point by showing you some numbers against a simple ork block (keep in mind that the ork block will be less expensive):

40 Skeletons vs 40 Orks (additional chopper)
Skeletons kill 5.64 orks with spears
Skeletons kill 4.31 orks with handweapons

Orks kill 18.22 Skeletons with spears
Orks kill 12.65 Skeletons with handweapons

Now tell me is it worth spending 40pts extra to kill 1.3 orks more per round while loosing about 5.5 more skeletons?

But hey you say "i got the lore of light" and cast speed of light on them:
Skeletons kill 7.59 orks with spears
Skeletons kill 5.74 orks with handweapons

Or even better i do the 6th spell (equivalent to things of mass destruction):
Skeletons kill 7.08 orks with spears
Skeletons kill 5.65 orks with handweapons

So whenever you field skeletons keep in mind they just suck hard dishing out damage, dont build your army around a "strong" skeletong block, they will just die against the breaker units of your opponent.

Wow that was a long paragraph, i am sorry about that, but i hope it proves the point and made you rethink your strategy a bit.

 

[Crazeh]

What I'm saying is, why have a common list with updates points values when no army can currently use it thanks to the errata? I can't see them printing that entire list of 8th edition common magic items all over again in every new army book, plus all the army specific items as well - that would take up so many pages. Why bother when it's all already in the rulebook, why waste the time and paper just to print it all again in the army books?

So I expect that their reason was exactly to homogenise the points values across all armies and even things up. I wouldn't consider that a balance change at all, that's making things clear cut: "These are magic items every army can use, every army pays this much for them, that's all there is to it."

It's the errata I don't understand. It makes zero sense to publish that. What, did they not want people flitting back and forth between army book and BRB to write a roster? Then why even revisit the common magic items in the first place? It's a bit of a dick move on GW's part in my opinion.

 

[Crazeh]

After a quick look, I can't actually find that errata now. I'm sure I've read it somewhere but for the life of me I don't remember where.

Edit: Found it. Vampire Counts FAQ. Still don't see the point of it though.

 

[Bravo_10]

I'm pretty sure that the plan is to release new army books with the updated point values before they give us a new WHFB edition. It's probably just a bit of foresight on their part, but I agree that it's a tad ridiculous.

Personally, I'll just be enjoying a 25 point Warbanner for as long as it lasts. That 35 point crap would be awfully irritating for our skeletons, who would be faced with losing a LOT more combats without it.

 

[TobinRoss89]

I would try to shift some points around so you can replace the banner the grave guard have with the banner of the barrows. Hitting on 3s or even 2s with fear or the helm is always really nice.

 

[Crazeh]

Yeah on paper the Banner of the Barrows beats the Royal Standard. Hitting on 4+ with a Hatred re-roll works out about the same as hitting on 3+, but when you start hitting on 2+ the Banner really pulls ahead.

Of course, having one on the unit and another on a Wight King BSB makes for a powerful combination, if perhaps a little overkill.

 

[TobinRoss89]

Yeah on paper the Banner of the Barrows beats the Royal Standard. Hitting on 4+ with a Hatred re-roll works out about the same as hitting on 3+, but when you start hitting on 2+ the Banner really pulls ahead.

Of course, having one on the unit and another on a Wight King BSB makes for a powerful combination, if perhaps a little overkill.

Very true, at that point I would start to find points to fit the drakenhof banner in to give them some staying power.