2400 Ghoulstar

[13ingo]

Hey guys, after some feedback on a list I just thought up earlier using some TK stuff which I've never really used.

Basically high priest takes lore of nehk, tries for smiting, 5+ ward spell, sig, and killing blow spells in that order. Ghoul king/necro go on vamps. If I have sig on nehk, van hels on necro or ghoul king, my ghoulstar can travel across the board pretty quickly. In combat staff of damnation bound spell gives +1 attack to the star, and smiting if I have it an additional attack also.. Potentially approx 50+ ghoul attacks with poisoned at WS 6, rerolling to hit from hatred. Plus the ghoul king puts out crazy damage and the TK has his HKB.

Strigoi Ghoul King: Staff of Damnation; Ogre Blade; Dragonbane Gem; The Other Trickster's Shard; Red Fury; Quickblood; Beguile 455

Tomb King: Destroyer Of Eternities; Dragonhelm; shield 263

Liche High Priest: Dispel Scroll; Talisman of Preservation; Level 4 Wizard 280

Necrotect: Charmed Shield; Seed of Rebirth 75

Necromancer: Book of Arkhan; Talisman of Protection; Level 2 Wizard 140

43 Crypt Ghouls: Crypt Ghast 440

5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40
5 Dire Wolves 40

Terrorgheist 225
Terrorgheist 225

Casket of Souls 135

2,398 points

 

[heldantes]

Looks like a possibly mad unit. Have you used it yet? I'd be worried about being out maneuvered, but two terrorgheists can win a game by themselves on a good day, and the casket is insane. You should be able to deal with most things!

 

[13ingo]

Nah I haven't used it yet, planning to try it out this weekend. I was considering trying to fit a bat swarm unit in the list to confer ASL to some units but struggling to see what to drop. As far as being outmaneuvered I think it's offset a little with book of arkhan, and I'll hopefully be getting sig for nehk, and another van hels ideally (potential 24" move in the magic phase..)

Basically my biggest fears are things like dwellers.. But I think that is a weakness of all deathstars really :/

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

My concern with your list is that it wouldn't be too hard to pin the characters down with something tanky (i.e. 3++ ward save characters) then hit it in the flanks with something that could really chew through the defenseless ghouls (i.e. skullcrushers, witch elves, etc). That unit doesn't want to be fighting anything in the flanks, and all you've really got to stop it is a handful of dog units.

My suggestion would be to drop the terrorgheists for mortis engines. I think these have more synergy with the list since they simultaneously protect the deathstar while eating away at anything that gets into contact with it.

I'd then drop the King down to a Prince with GW+armour of destiny, and drop the necrotect entirely. I'd shave the ghoul unit down to make room for a unit of maybe 15 TK skeletons with champ to bunker those wizards in right behind the ghoul horde.

Finally, as cool as Lore of Nehekhara is, I think that Lore of Undeath might be a better option. You could summon up stuff to support your brick and to mire them in ethereal, then grind them out with the mortis engines or the brick should they get close. You've already got two terrorgheists for summoning, and if you've got a lot of VC stuff you're probably solid there as well.

Thus swap the LHP out for a master necro with the Black Periapt and an MR(3) token, and maybe drop the Book of Arkhan off the baby necro in exchange for a dispel scroll.

This will give you a SAVAGE summoning engine to bring stuff up around your ghouls. You have very few vulnerable points outside your chaff and the bunker, and quite honestly if you keep them 1" behind the ghoul star there's very little that people can get into that unit that the mortis engines won't tear apart in no time flat.

 

[13ingo]

I dont think even 3++ characters would tie my ghoul king down, with infinite hatred, quickblood, redfury and other tricksters shard at str 7. Especially when he's likely getting at least an extra attack or two as well.

The terrorgheists are there to support and to deny flanks if needed or counter charge. They also give me the freedom to death shriek annoying units that could otherwise run circles and cause havoc to my ghoul block (gyrocopters come to mind), as well as providing target saturation, cannonball blocks, and I can death shriek war machines if I need to. I don't think the mortis engines would bring much to the ghoul block if I'm running nehk magic (lore attribute brings back ghouls, and 5+ ward spell), and with 2 x invocations I can bring them back relatively quickly.

I would consider dropping the King to a prince however as I think my ghoul king and the big block of poison is probably strong enough (with supportive magic) to bring down anything I'd want to try and HKB. But I think the necrotect is invaluable when combined with poisoned attacks.

I've run lore of undeath pretty extensively and don't really feel it is as strong as it seems, unless you're running Nagash or Arkhan.. I don't like relying on miscasting to cast spells (for terrorgheist summon usually), and the only other summon I've found that is pretty strong is a unit of vargheists. And to be honest if I was going to not take nehk I'd probably drop the casket & LHP and try and fit manfred in the list instead. I am tempted to try and fit in MR3 somewhere though.

There's also the problem being that I don't own any mortis engines lol, I probably will one day when I pick up crypt horrors as well, but I figure crypt horrors/mortis engines suit a more defensive style of play, whereas I like to play more aggressive.

 

[Seneschal]

I'm gonna to side with Pirate about the 3+ ward charcacters. A doom bull of tzeentch with the 1+ armor save using ramhorn helm (when an armor save is made, he gets an immediate str six attack) would beat any strigoi. The shard is nice but the DB has five wounds and a good chance to pass the wards whereas an SGK has a 5+ regen and that's it.
Most beast lists are running double doom bulls with 3++ wards.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

You can count on a blender with OTS doing about 2 wounds to a 1+3++ character, especially if he's got the Third Eye. It's a ridiculously durable build, and is something that you REALLY need to be concerned about when it comes to blenders. Ward saves are the number one counter to the blender build, as their damage capabilities drop right off as soon as they start struggling to push wounds through. And with only a 5+ regen the strigoi is rather lacking in durability in return. Unless you're building one on the cheap I really struggle to see the sense in choosing one over a Vampire Lord who - for the same cost - is frankly just kind of...better.

That said if you're going with a themed build then I totally get it. Just know that the strigoi is super fragile in exchange for not very much of a benefit.

As for Lore of Undeath, I think you're underestimating its potential in the context of a dedicated magic engine build. Lore of Undeath is mediocre on an unaided level 4, but throw in +d3 casting from the hierotitan, extra dice from the casket, and yet more extra dice from the periapt, you get something incredibly savage. With all of those dice you're pushing through multiple spells a turn, and your opponent only has the ability to scroll one or two of those dead.

Don't just trust me on this, take a look at the list that recently won the US Master's. Essentially it's exactly the same thing, but with a weaker TK-specific build. Tweak that summoning engine into an Undead Legions list and I think you could build something even meaner.

 

[13ingo]

Well there's also the TK with HKB in there also (should also benefit from OTS while standing next to the GK), and I can still double death shriek at targets in combat with the ghouls if I really need to.
I suppose I am going for a bit of a themed/fluffy list, but its more of just a friendly list rather than a win at all costs list I'm going for, and wanting to branch out into some tomb kings options which I haven't used besides a casket.

The vampire isn't really going to be doing any casting, with the TK accepting any challenges that might be a problem for the ghoul king. I figured the ghoul king would be the better option as he gets poisoned attacks and rerolls to hit regardless if the enemy is ASF or not, as well as a free 5+ regen (would be nothing with the same items on a vamp lord)

A question though- If i have OTS and a chaos player rolls a 1 for his ward save, does he still get to reroll it? (But reroll again if successful) Or does it cancel the rule out?

 

[owain_b]

I think go for it 13ingo, you can make the TK HKB on a 5+ with reroll wards, therr is a good chance that will kill anything it attacks in the first turn with the necrotech conferring hatred and maybe throw in hellish vigour. It's only a friendly game so see how it works first and apply above suggested tweaks for next game if it doesn't pull off what you were hoping.
Saying that though I would be very tempted with switching the 2 geists for mortis engines as the regen will make the unit and the characters much more survivable

 

[13ingo]

So I've played my list 3 times (two games with a reduced point limit of 2000, basically dropped a terrorgheist and necrotect & some ghouls)

First game I made a few stupid mistakes, while also being very unlucky. Stupidly deployed my terrorgheists right next to each other, where my opponents skullcannon proceeded to roll double 6's for wounds on both of them and they both dropped before I even got to move them. After that I tried chasing around his demon prince & sorc lord on disc with my ghoul block instead of just heading for everything else, and basically just got magicked off the board with spirit leech & purple sun etc. Highlight was ghoul king trying to charge out of the unit and rolling double 1's, receiving a double charge from two skullcannons, then murdering them both in the first round of combat.

Second game was against an ogre gutstar 2k points, my terrorgheist was a little unlucky again dying from a single volley of shots from 4 leadbelchers in the first turn again, then I basically kept getting terrible magic phases. My ghoulstar and his gutstar basically killed each other (I still had my characters left though), but then I just got kited by his shooting until I was wiped out.

Third game was against the ogre gutstar again where things went a little better for me, my terrorgheist lasted a couple of turns, getting a couple of shrieks off at leadbelchers before dying to them, my ghoulstar murdered his gutstar in combat since I had a good magic phase and dispelled his attempt at boosted pann's pelt. Ghoul king killed his BSB and took 3 wounds off his tyrant, with the rest of the unit (tomb king HKB'ing on 5+) taking out enough ogres to put him on double 1's.

Thoughts are if magic goes a little my way the unit is pretty unbeatable in combat, but I really need to keep my terrorgheist alive to either a) redirect shooting at the gheist, or b) shriek at threats I can't catch.

However I have been considering dropping one terrorgheist from my list, putting down a heirotitan instead, dropping the King down to a prince, and grabbing a baby vamp with obsidian blade & red fury.

Also a question - does heirotitan ability add D3 to casting results of bound spells?

 

[Asmodeus]

Also a question - does heirotitan ability add D3 to casting results of bound spells?

No. Bound spells never benefit from any kind of bonus to cast.

 

[13ingo]

Damn shame. Finding it very hard to get my bound spells off since opponent always saves a couple of dice after knowing what they do.

 

[Nicreap]

Damn shame. Finding it very hard to get my bound spells off since opponent always saves a couple of dice after knowing what they do.

That's a good thing, it means you should be able to push through the spells you want, and it you have the black periapt store your last 2 dice leaving him sitting on his dispel dice.

 

[Seneschal]

The skull cannons charged instead of shooting the lone SGK? Not a good play at all

Your opponent had a tyrant and no stubborn crown? That's another bad decision in an army with little rank bonus and few units regardless of how many characters are buffing the star.

 

[13ingo]

The skull cannons charged instead of shooting the lone SGK? Not a good play at all

Your opponent had a tyrant and no stubborn crown? That's another bad decision in an army with little rank bonus and few units regardless of how many characters are buffing the star.

He was unable to shoot at him because there was the chance he could hit his own units, so he was hoping to take me down with impact hits.

And he did have the stubborn crown on one of his characters (not sure which one), but I killed it. I basically got all the spells off I wanted so my ghouls had 4 attacks each, rerolling to hit, HKB with tomb king on 5's, so he didn't really have much of note after the first round of combat really.

 

[Seneschal]

So it was on his BSB? He should have put it on the tyrant as he would've been more protected due to having more points for upgrades. Putting the crown on a hero is a very risky endeavor.

 

[13ingo]

I think it was on the tyrant cause BSB had that charge banner thing. Tyrant died though. Ghoul King dealt three wounds and ghouls or tomb King finished him off. (I love OTS)