2400 Minimal Points Given Away

[Munkey]

Hi, got a 3 game 2400 point tournament on the weekend coming. Following a recent tournament where things were sniped by flaming dwarf cannonballs for fun - Mortis Engine, Corpse Cart. It left me trying to play catch up in games where a difference of 100 points = loss. So how about the following list as a points denial/hard to kill list (apart from the cheap throw away units that is!).

Master Necro, Black Periapt, Talisman of Preservation
Necro, Cursed Book (my new favourite item).
Necro, Dispell Scroll

30 zombies, standard, musician x 6 (total core)

2x Fell bats x 3
1x Spirit Host x 2
30 Grave Guard, Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Barrows
30 Grave guard, Great Weapons, Champion, Standard
10 Hexwraiths

That's it. I would love a Corpse Cart for Nehek rerolls but too easy a target for flaming cannonballs etc.

What you guys think? I'm not completely convinced by Hexwraiths as yet. They may be too slow without the Lord being nearby but they can be very hard to kill and, if used correctly, can be real game turners.

 

[Corpse_Master]

Hello,

I play a against a lot of dwarfs and empire and I run into the same problem. I just started the hobby and will likely not invest in the big expensive monsters/chariots we have access to as a result. Grave guard hordes are the way to go.

Hex wraith's I'm not sold on either. If a dwarf runic cannon can get a decent angle on those hex wraiths they will be gone with a decent bounce.

On another note, why do u like the cursed book so much? Don't you find we're starved for power dice as it is?

 

[Munkey]

Gotta hate those magic cannonballs. Hexwraiths would be held until last placement. At the worst can set out in a formation that minimalises potential losses ie. 1 rank of 10 if heading straight at the cannons = max 1 Hexwraith per shot.

The Cursed Book. I know what you mean. At first glance it does appear to be a real drain on dice, especially if the winds roll, the all too familiar 6 & 1. However it gaurantees the spell going off, with no chance of miscasts! Each and every one of them assists VC in combat, which is where we do our damage. It could cost 3 PD but it could also cost just 1. Nearly all the spells that can be cast would require atleast 2 or maybe 3 DD to get rid of. In a game v Daemons it got me an Enfeeble at a vital point, leading to strength 2 Bloodletters!

It happens right at the start of the magic phase and forces your opponent to make a decision early on. I am going to combine it with the Black Periapt for extra dice fun. Also half of the spells are remains in play, this will put the pinch on your opponents ability to cast in his phase. The rest affect them until the start of our next phase.

All for just 35 points.

 

[Uthiliano]

Also worth mentioning that 50% of the spells it casts are Remains in play spells... which is just awesome to get the upper hand in magicphases against most opponents (vs. dwarves not so much )

 

[Uthiliano]

And by the way I like your army alot... haven't played more than a couple of games with the new book as my army has had a rest lately... but if I had the amounts of zombies I'd make a core like you did... currently I'm running 2-3 units and the amount I can get up with the lvl 1 necros spamming is just silly... so I can't really support more than 2 units worth of models when they get boosted...

Also for this purpose the Mortis Engine is ofcourse crucial but as you say... it's quite impossible to protect against dwarf cannons, screaming skull catapults etc...

Hexwraiths aren't something I tried yet... haven't got the models and really need some inspiration to start painting again ... but a potential of 30" move before turn 2 starts and the ability to move thru enemy units and hit them on the way... must be just as annoying for dwarves as those cannons are for you?...

 

[rothgar13]

Count me in as a vote of dissent for the Hexwraiths. It takes all of one 5-point rune to make a Dwarf Cannon or Grudge Thrower magical, and if they do so (and they will, especially for the Grudge Thrower), chances are your Hexwraiths are paste. I like most of the rest of the list, though I would consider a Vampire Lord an option, because the gap between 30 Grave Guard and 40 in combat is considerable.

 

[GhoulKing505]

I can't even imagine running that many zombies. 180 zombies to start out with and then adding more during each of your magic phases. That's just insane. So insane it will most likely work. :O

 

[Munkey]

Hey GhoulKing505, 180 zombies is a piece of cake. Try 350 for size! Raised that many in a tournament v Tomb Kings. I actually could have added more but I ran out of zombies and I don't proxy. The most annoying part was the time taken to assemble all the zombies into the units after they've been raised. Really annoyed my opponant. The idea is to intimidate my opponant first. Strike the terror of a wall of smelly death facing them. If a unit gets through to a unit of archers of war machine crew, they'll take it down eventually.

I know what you guys mean about the Hexwraiths. I'm not completely sold. However, on the flipside, not all tournament lists are Dwarves. Against High Elves, Dark Elves, Tomb Kings etc there is very little access to magical shooting, other than spells. Spells can be countered to some extend - Dispell Scroll, Scroll of Shielding and even DD. I left them out of the most recent tournament and regreted it in 4 of the 5 games.

On a slight side note, given the Fast Cavalry nature of Hexwraiths, do you think they could be placed nose to tail in front of your entire army, to get a cheeky hard cover -2 shooting benefit?

As to a Vampire Lord - too expensive. I'm still weary of sticking expensive characters where they can get KB or worse. 30 Grave Guard will get mashed in combat by certain things. However, if the mashers has been redirected by some bats or a spirit host, then flank charging GG with Great Weapons can do some damage. Ask my friend and his 40 Bloodletters. If my opponant has a unit of doom facing me, i'll send in the zombies. He may kill 26 a turn but they're only f*cking zombies right? In one game I faced a unit of 5 chaos knights + Lord + Hero + Hero BsB. Well over 1000 points. I restricted them to killing 270 points of zombies all game. Would have been a lot less had I been cheesy with my zombie formations - single file anyone?

 

[rothgar13]

TK has the Screaming Skull Catapult and the Casket of Souls, so that's still a bad situation for the Hexwraiths. Other armies are actually fast enough to catch them, especially the DE. I'm still not sold.

 

[Da Once Future Git]

From a competitive stand point, I think it would do quite well, from a personal stand point, I would hate to face this army for the reasons you posted above.

Really with an army like this you should be able to completely dictade who fights what & where. the only thing that I can really see working against it is mass anti horde shooting & magic (a few vortices come to mind!)

 

[Munkey]

Well took a revised version of this list to Cloudburst. A 3 game 1 day tournament and came 3rd overall with 2 wins and a seriously tough draw.

List:
Lvl 4 Master Necro (Vampires) Black Periapt & 5+ ward save

Lvl 1 Necro (Vamps) + Cursed Book (seriously awesome).
Lvl 1 Necro (Vamps) + Dispell Scroll

30 Zombies, Standard & Musician
30 Zombies, Standard & Musician
29 Zombies, Standard & Musician
30 Ghouls + Ghast
2x Fellbats
2x Fellbats
2x Fellbats
1x Spirit Host
1x Spirit Host
30 Grave Guard, Full Command, Great Weapons, Banner of Barrows
30 Grave Guard, Full Command, Great Weapons.
10 Hexwraiths

No big targets for cannon balls - flaming or otherwise.
Cursed Book & Periapt were fan-bloody-tastic and will feature in most of my lists going forward.

Battle reports when I can think straight!

 

[Fragskull]

Love this list, do you find with that many zombies that they actually start winning combat or do they simply get turned into regenerating mulch?

 

[Ether Dude]

Does your ghoul block do much killing? I'm inclined to do something similar, but replace the ghouls with a fear bomb skeleton unit with a shadows vampire bsb.

As to your list, I can't argue with your success; props!

The thing that I'm scratching my head over is your GW GG sizes. Against something like frenzied Khorne marauders or the beast banner gor herd of doom, I would expect that 30 GG would have a hard time. I don't see how you plan on dealing with those since they are relatively inexpensive, will generate massive CR vs zombies and beat down your grave guard faster than the GG will get up, especially in the absence of lore of shadows, which I view as a necessary attribute now that the helm is gone.

Ok, I lied. Against the marauders you give knights zombies, warriors get double teemed by the GG and you chaff away one regiment of marauders while hex-wraithing the last big block. Ok, I see where this is going, but it seems like it's very touch and go against anything in which the wraiths are not invincible (demons, wood elves, high elves, skaven, dwarfs, warriors of chaos or other VC).

Summation:
1) How do you get by without shadows?
2) What does the killing?
3) How do you control units that will beat down the GG (or the aforementioned killing unit)?
4) Are 2 units of grave guard as cool as they seem? Super cool in fact. I want them, but the budget won't support springing for another 22 teutogen guard. Damn you sir, damn you.

 

[Munkey]

Heya Peeps...

Fragskull:Zombies are bloody useless in combat. For example a unit of 50+ zombies were charged by a unit of 5 pointy eared Ellyrian Reavers. Over the course of approx 5 rounds of combat the zombies, with 10 attacks each time(mostly) managed to kill a total of 3 elf horsemen. And Ellyrians are very winpy.

Ether Dude:

1) How do you get by without shadows? Easily but I do miss it. Used to run a vamp lord with Shadows. Cursed book adds the slim chance of getting one or two of them.
2) What does the killing? Not the zombies, that's for sure! The 2 GG units kill things. The Hexwraiths can be seriously nasty. The ghouls can tear things up. It's all about getting the units into the right opponents. For example ghouls will struggle against anything with a decent armour save but are golden against lightly armoured foes. 30 ghouls charge 30 Savage Orcs. Throw in Danse & Hellish and the ghouls kill 18 Savage Orcs!
3) How do you control units that will beat down the GG (or the aforementioned killing unit)? It's all about distractions. I got me 3 units of Fell Bats and 2 Spirit Hosts running the Kansas City Shuffle on the enemy. Those 5 units are not going to survive the game. Firstly I can use them top deploy 5 units before anything decent goes down - so I can see where the enemies toughest units are going and avoid them. Secondly the bats just land in front of the deadly units, at an angle, to deviate their charges. If your enemy has 1000s of points invested in 1 unit, just don't let that unit to fight in combat for all 6 turns. Don't allow over-runs into fresh combats. Only let them fight in their turns. In one game approx 1300 points of chaos knights & heroes only managed to kill 270 points worth of zombies. In the tournament I played an opponent with a nasty Irongut deathstar. All it got to fight was Fell Bats, Spirit Hosts and Zombies.
4) Are 2 units of grave guard as cool as they seem? Super cool in fact. I want them, but the budget won't support springing for another 22 teutogen guard. Damn you sir, damn you. 2 units of GGs are indeed as cool as they sound. Very intimidating for your opponent. Maybe a bit boring to paint and play with. I wanna get a nice big unit of Crypt Ghouls in their. Toughness 5 is just awesome. If you think 2 units is bad, I better not mention the other 30 I have on the to do table. Now more Great Weapons or perhaps some board & sword GGs?