2400 points VC for a comped tourney.

[Skarsnik the Lord]

Hello, there's a tourney coming at the end of the September and I wanted to try out my Vampire Counts (if I can paint enough models :lol: ). The game size is 2400 and there's a couple of comps used.

- No special characters.
- No two same rare choices.
- No Power Scroll from the big rule book.
- No more than three same war machines.
- No more than six chariot units.

The comps are fine IMO, many special characters are just too good, and Power Scroll and double Hydras are both redicilous. Anyway, here's the list I was planning to use.

Vampire Lord
- Red Fury, Infinite Hatred, Walking Death
- The Flayed Hauberg, Sword of Quarrel, Dawnstone
= 395 points.

Wight King
- battle standard bearer
- Sword of Kings, Gem of Blood
= 150 points.

Vampire
- The Forbidden Lore (Lore of Shadows)
- Helm of Commandment, Channeling Staff
= 180 points.

Necromancer
- Invocation of Nehek, Vanhel's Dance Macabre
- Dispel Scroll
= 95 points.

Necromancer
- Invocation of Nehek, Vanhel's Dance Macabre
- Black Periapt
= 85 points.

30* Ghouls
- Ghast
= 248 points.

30* Skeletons
- full command
- Warbanner
= 285 points.

22* Zombies
- standard bearer, musician
= 100 points.

5* Dire Wolves
= 40 points.

5* Dire Wolves
= 40 points.

Corpse Cart
- Balefire
= 100 points.

24* Grave Guards
- full command group, great weapons
- Banner of the Barrows
= 387 points.

6* Fell Bats
= 120 points.

Varghulf
= 175 points.

There! I'm not sure which one is better choice, casting or fighting lord, so I decided to take a fighting one. A Wight King BSB with some good killing stuff was added too, as was a support Vampire with Lore of Shadows and HoC. She's there for giving some WS for some of our units and trying to make enemies weaker. A couple of Necromancers were taken because of VDM. The main strategy is to stick the Lord in the unit of Ghouls, Wight King in Grave Guards and other characters in Skeletons.

Cores then. A big unit of Ghouls work as good bodyguards for my Vampire Lord. Skeletons are my bunkering unit and Zombies were added because I yet didn't fill core. Two units of Dogs wre taken, mainly because of easier debloyment and blocking. I'm not quite sure about these but they'll do. A Corpse Cart is there just for trying to give ASF for my units.

Specials. A big unit of Grave Guards works as a good hammer, Fell Bats are going to hunt war machines. Rares were rounded off by a Varghulf.

What do you think? The main plan is to take my hard units in close combat (Grave Guards and Ghouls, Varghulf gives some support) and hang back with support units (Skeletons, Corpse Cart, Zombies).

Magic should do fine (I have four guys who roll for channeling, one with 5+) as my close combat troops.

What would you do differently? Is a casting lors better choice than a fighty one? What should I drop/add?

 

[Forge]

imo black coach is to good to pass up, just my 2 cents tho. will likely get flying and everything else end of turn 1, much better then vargulf

 

[Fallen Angel]

One thing I've found works wonders in this ed for vamps is lore of beast. Awesome character buffs and a signature spell that turns zombies from trash to ok! In my last game I fielded 30 zombies, spent the first turn buffing them up to 60+ then threw them at something I didn't want to deal with, and then casted wissans wildform and helm of commandment on them and watched the humiliation begin!

Later in the same game I managed to pull of both powered up character buff spells in the same phase giving my three vamps +3A +3S +3T they single handedly destroyed most of my opponents army. My lord with red fury, hatred and sword of strife killed of 17 plauge monks in one CC round..

Other than that I like your list, maybe I'd drop the periapt necro and buff both wolf units to 10.

 

[Skarsnik the Lord]

Thanks!

I think Black Coach is not very good choice, as it can't steal enemy's Power Dices anymore (Evocation of Death and rolling for power dices happen at the start of the magic phase, and as it's enemy's phase, he can choose which one to do first. Wierd but true... o.o). And the other reason why I don't take is the fact I don't have the model for it. :lol:

I might try Lore of Beasts out, I'm not yet sure what lore would be the best for the support Vampire but I thought Lore of Shadow would be nice because all those weakening spells... I will try both of them though before deciding. Sadly I have only 12 Dire Wolves (+ two Doom Wolves) so I can't take anymore dogs... What do you succes?

I think I'll drop two Zombie sand take one Ghoul more, now when my Lord joins then they can go into nice, 8x4 formation (against Trolls and hordes and anything else with wide frontage). When they are buffed by a HoC and enemy weakened by some spell (perhaps -1 Str or -1 Toughness) they'll deal very much damage (Lord hacks 6 re-rollable Str 5 hits with Red Fury, Ghouls 24 poisoned Str 3 hits, everything with Ws6). I like it.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Lore of shadows is a great lore yes, but not for vamps IMO. Simply because our troops don't much killing, that's for the vampires. And the vampires certainly won't need to de-buff their enemies to be effective. With lore of beasts you can give your ghouls horde s4 and t5:| that, I think, would work better than de-buffing your enemies since it makes your troops more resilient to any return attacks.

In my army, which actually looks pretty similar to yours, I run one vamp with forbidden lore; beasts, helm of commandment and one vamp with forbidden lore;vampires, SCotN, flayed hauberk, d.scroll as support/caster characters. For combat I run a lord vamp. Too dangerous for him to cast spells either way nowadays:tongue:

If you don't have more wolves, maybe drop one necro for another WK with additional handweapon? Great for boosting CC effectiveness and also works wonders with lore of beasts

By the way, did I say I think you should use lore of beasts? :lol:

 

[Skarsnik the Lord]

Hmmm... Lore of Beasts sound nice, I'm going to try that next time I'm going to play.

Only one Necromancer... Hmm... Might do, but then I have to take care that he doesn't fail to cast any spells. Okay, so if I drop the Necromancer with Black Periapt I'll get 85 points, so a Wight King with additional hand weapons could work.

 

[Ciims]

Woaaa I must admit that Ghouls S4 T5 is amazing!!!! Can I steal your idea Fallen Angel ?

Skarsnik, the only thing that bugs me is those 22 zombies, which are not enough to be efficient in my point of view. I usually field 40 of them, never less, because they are too weak and get destroyed too easily with CR (after casualties). I would suggest that you get some more, so that they can hold a little longer Also, getting them +1S +1T would be quite funny, almost effective :tongue:

 

[Count Lasombra]

Me personally, I don't like the necro's.They are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.I know you want van-vels and ION,but where are they gonna be standing when they cast it.All the 8th ed games I've played have been very hostile to lone characters,and if they are in a unit and it gets into CC they'll likely be butchered into quick little point nuggets.Then again that's alway's been my bitch w/ casters on foot/in bunkers,if things get hairy they gotta bail like a rat off a sinking ship.You could trade'em both for another vamp.It'll be less casty,but you will generate more CC kills.
And with TLOS you can run but you can't hide.

 

[Skarsnik the Lord]

Count Lasombra, I understand your point, Necromancers are weak and they get crunched in close combat very fast if our opponent wants to crush them. Honestly, at many times my opponents don't even try to hit my Necromancers - they think Necromancers carry a ward save or other trinket :lol: But anyway, Necromancers are easy to kill, so I just have to keep them at out of combat.

In my list I have only one Necromancer (the another one is Wight King now), so protecting him shouldn't be a big problem. I stick him in my Skeletons, at the corner of the unit to minimilize attacks coming against him. If I try I believe I can keep him out of combat and at least alive. One Necromancer is nice choice IMO, for variety if nothing else.

 

[Forge]

Thanks!

I think Black Coach is not very good choice, as it can't steal enemy's Power Dices anymore (Evocation of Death and rolling for power dices happen at the start of the magic phase, and as it's enemy's phase, he can choose which one to do first. Wierd but true... o.o). And the other reason why I don't take is the fact I don't have the model for it. :lol:

I might try Lore of Beasts out, I'm not yet sure what lore would be the best for the support Vampire but I thought Lore of Shadow would be nice because all those weakening spells... I will try both of them though before deciding. Sadly I have only 12 Dire Wolves (+ two Doom Wolves) so I can't take anymore dogs... What do you succes?

I think I'll drop two Zombie sand take one Ghoul more, now when my Lord joins then they can go into nice, 8x4 formation (against Trolls and hordes and anything else with wide frontage). When they are buffed by a HoC and enemy weakened by some spell (perhaps -1 Str or -1 Toughness) they'll deal very much damage (Lord hacks 6 re-rollable Str 5 hits with Red Fury, Ghouls 24 poisoned Str 3 hits, everything with Ws6). I like it.

like most people say, i would pick up my models and not play my opponent if they did not let me suck their power dice as RaI it is very doable as it always has been.

 

[Skarsnik the Lord]

I agree, when I'm playing with my gaming group then that works, but in a tournament that wouldn't work as well (the judge says "Rules as written" :mad2: ).

Today I played a game against Dwarfs with this list. Ghouls worked really well (honestly I've always used only Skeletons and Zombies ), with the Lord they crunched through two big Dwarf units. Everything worked pretty well, except Dire Wolves, they died quite fast (but they're not here for staying anyway).

 

[BaronBloodfist]

Its quite funny that you state that your Dire Wolves died fast, since i wanted to comment on your DireWolves in the first place

The thing is that in 8th most VC players field blocks of infantry. For the enemy those block who are getting revived all the time are a total nightmare for shooting, so they search for better targets. I think we can agree that shooting with bows or guns at Undead regiments is just totally useless in terms of cost effiency. If suddenly something like direwolves pop up its just makes the opponents ranged units smile since they suddenly found a target which they could actually kill straight away. In combination with the fact that they are not counting towards the 25% core requirement i dislike direwolves in 8th. I think they just got nurfed to hard since 6th Ed. What you could try is using 5 naked BlackKnights for warmachine hunting, since they wont be much more expensive than your 10 wolves and do survive normal fire much better and bring much more pain to warmachine crews than wolves with their evil 1 Str 3 attack *rawww*

 

[Count Lasombra]

I guess it depends on the group that plays in your area.My usual opponents take great delight in murdering lightly armored and/or unprotected characters.They are a source of easy VP's.Now in 8th where you have to destroy entire units to get any points at all,those odd 50's and 100's add up.
I'm not saying it's dumb to take them or anything,it's just that VC are one of the few armies who can field fighty wizards,and I like to take advantage of that.
Like I said though,my "friends" are shooty,and magicky,and run cheap kamikaze units.
I personally had better not show up with a necro wearing nothing but a neckerchief ,

 

[Skarsnik the Lord]

Yeah, I might consider to drop Dire Wolves, 5 T3 wounds are shot away even by weak enemy units... Are Fell Bats alone enough war machine hunting or should I take 5 vanilla Black Knights too? Against Dwarfs Fell Bats suck badly (my opponent took Anvil of Doom, so no flying movement for my bats o_o) but against other armies they are great.

The new points value rules ("You don't get any points if you don't wipe out the whole enemy unit") are very stupid in my opinion. For an example, a kingdom sends 50 swordsmen into war. After the war there's only three swordsmen left. And that doesn't cost anything for the kingdom!? o.o How unrealistic... At least the gaming group of mine is going to use the old points value system ("Kill the half of the unit = half of the points), but in tournaments that's very odd rule. Matt Ward did it again. :slapface:

 

[Count Lasombra]

The point value thing threw me off at first,but now I kinda like it...
"FINISH HIM!!" ,and mercy becomes less popular
It makes you go for the kill more, it's comical to me that at the end of a battle there may be one or two survivors running around the field,trying like hell to avoid true LOS and angry hordes,desperately attempting to bring home their "precious cargo" of points.

 

[BaronBloodfist]

HarHar yes that could create some funny moments in the 5th and 6th rounds of a battle

@ Skarsnik the Lord: I would go for the Blackknights as i do not like the fellbats in 8th anymore.

Its kind of sad but the number of usefull units in the VC armybook is decreasing more and more in my oppinion. Well with rarechoices you are fine with wrait, varghulf and black coaches, but beside from that more or less blocks are the only other useful thing left in the army.

I mean come on Direwolves and Fellbats might be still okay in very special circumstances, but buying zombies, bat swarms, spirit hosts???
That leaves us with about Skeletons, Ghouls, Graveguards, and Blackknights which are not below par. Kind of boring in my opionion since i loved dancing around with Direwolves, Fellbats and the old skirmisher ghouls and banshees

 

[Skarsnik the Lord]

@ Skarsnik the Lord: I would go for the Blackknights as i do not like the fellbats in 8th anymore.

Why's that? I think Fell Bats are still great war machine hunters, even when they need to march to get to their goal.

But yes, the game against Dwarfs ended with a couple of funny moments.

I had only one Grave Guard left in the unit. He ran like hell with BSB after fighting against some big units. That was kinda fun, when there was lots of Guards, oh yes they can fight, but after there's only champion left they run like rabbits away from combat. My opponent tried to shoot them away with cannon, but as he rolled badly on artillery dice, the shot wounded once my BSB but bounced on his Anvil of Doom, which immediately exploded. :rofl2: That was kinda fun I can tell you. :lol: