2400 vs. Skaven

[Mangaroca]

Hi,

I'm getting ready to face Skaven again in a battle of 2400pts each. I know my opponent might use the following in any combination:

- 2x Warp Lightning Cannons
- 1x Hellpit Abomination
- 1x Screaming Bell
- 4x Ogre Rats
- 1x Grey Seer

My idea for a setup is:

- 1x Mounted Vampire Lord, LoV lvl4 (Heavy Armor, Shield, Lance, Sword of Strife [can I take it with lance???], Talisman of Preservation, Fear Incarnate, Dread Knight, Red Fury)

- 1x Necromancer, LoV lvl2 (Dispel Scroll)

- 25x Crypt Ghoul (Champion) - Necromancer will hide behind this unit
- 25x Crypt Ghoul (Champion)
- 5x Dire Wolf
- 5x Dire Wolf

- 6x Crypt Horror
- 6x Vargheist

- 4x Blood Knight (Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, War Banner, "some sword for the Seneschal") - Lord will join this unit
- Terrorgheist

*****

Now, I could drop the Terrorgheist and instead take one more Blood Knight and a Vargulf but I am not sure which setup would be better..

What do you think?
Thanks!

 

[hairyjeff]

against rats I would try double terrorgheisting- rats can't use their ranks against a scream. the ghoul units seem small- they might be susceptible to ranged attacks. if you keep the KoBK,, I guess the VL is going with them. don't see the point of dread knight or the lance/sword combo on the lord- he can carry both, but can only use the sword. I would ditch the BK champ as well- he has to challenge, which you should NEVER do vs Skaven. instead of challenging, get into cc and direct all available attacks against characters. if you challenge, he can hide in rear ranks and still use leadership and banner bonuses. if you don't challenge, he has to stay in the front rank and get hit. good luck.

 

[Mangaroca]

Thanks for the suggestions. However:

1. 2x Terrorgheists mean I will have to drop Blood Knights (600pts Rare limit). I could get a few Black Knights instead buto you think it's a good trade off?

2. By saying 2x 25 Ghouls is a bit too few do you mean I should get them together in a Unit of 50 or increase their tota numbers (2x 30)?

3. Are Dire Wolves actually required? I heard they can obliterate Warp Lightning Cannons but never seen them do it..

4. What is KoBK?

Thanks!

 

[Dread Fury]

Whuuboy. This is not going to be a good time you may want to employ death magic and focus on the abom, and yeah, drop a few 5x units of wolves for the cannons. 10 of them are only 80, and you can at least divert the cannons' attention from the rest of your army (and pray that he blows the both of them up on misfires). Fear will work more often than not on most of the skaven army, so large blocks of core aren't a bad idea. I would be worried about using terrorgheists though. Whenever I used them against my buddy's vermin herds, they would get wiped out by ranged attacks very early in the game. If you can safeguard that, then yeah...the screams will devastate them. A mortis engine isn't a bad idea. you could try that. It's aura is pretty strong against skaven infantry since their toughness isn't the greatest, but once again...large target.

as far as 2x 25 ghouls...you should combine the units. Maybe not the entire 50 (40+). I suggest making the ranks 7 wide. That will give you optimum attacks while ensuring at least a turn or two of 3 ranks. also, if you take a mortis engine and a wizard with invo, you can tarpit with zombies quite nicely. They'll have a regen of 6+ and compete nicely with slaves.

Make sure you bunker your Necros. skitterleap will be your wizards' demise otherwise.

Strategy: tarpit blocks of infantry as soon as possible, immediately focus on wizards and abom, destract cannons with wolves (or vargheists, or varghulf)

P.S. = the black couch is a defensive beast. high armour save and 4+ ward (NOT regen) will keep it around long enough to get "fly" and "ethereal". By then, hopefully his cannons will be destroyed. just be weary of Cracks call.

 

[Mangaroca]

Interesting suggestions there.. How about this revised list:

Lords

• Vampire Lord
  Heavy Armour, Lore of the Vampires, Red Fury, Supernatural Horror, Wizard Level 4, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Strife, Talisman of Preservation
• Barded Nightmare

Heroes

• Necromancer
  Lore of the Vampires, Wizard Level 2
  • Dispel Scroll
    

Core

• Crypt Ghouls x51
  Champion

• Dire Wolves x5
  
  
• Dire Wolves x5

Special

• Black Knights x9
  Champion, Barding, Standard Bearer (Banner of the Barrows)

• Crypt Horrors x4
  Champion
  
  
• Vargheists x5
  Champion

Rare

• Mortis Engine
  Blasphemous Tome
  
  
• Terrorgheist

 

[hairyjeff]

I'd be quite happy with that- just hope for raise dead to distract him, or danse macabre to out move him.

 

[Mangaroca]

Sorry if I should start a new thread (battle report?) but I just thought this place would suit the purpose better. Well, I lost... I was gone by the end of round 5. Thanks all for help. Unfortunately, this setup proved to be quite terrible this time.

I faced:
2x Warp Lightning Cannons
1x Doomwheel
1x Hellpit Abomination
1x Engineer
1x Grey Seer
1x Queek Headtaker
2x Warlords
loads of Stormvermin and Clanrats in 3 equal units

---
My Terrorgheist was killed through a building by a Doomwheel that landed 3 lightnings on it (I didn't know it can shoot through buildings).
My Vargheists were halved by his cannons and magic before they could charge.
My Crypt Horrors failed to charge twice and were obliterated during his shooting phase.
My Black Knights died out through combat resolution.
So did my General soon after.

+++
Dire Wolves were able to kill the Engineer and one Cannon. Vampire and a unit of Ghouls scared the Hellpit Abomination off the table.

I had a few thoughts after the game:

1. I have no idea how STRONGER but less numerable units could win against Skaven, especially the combat resolution... It seems that I need to field at least the same number of models to even stand a chance...

2. I made a cardinal error and hesitated to go all ahead. Instead, I anticipated his charges and hoped for them to fail. I read here many times since that with rats one just needs to go forward all speed.. - my bad...

3. I fielded too many flanking units (Terrorgheist, Vargheists) and not enough head to head cheap infantry.

4. My Vargheists should have been fielded as 2x 3 models instead of 1x 6 models.

5. Majority of deaths on my side was caused by Combat Resolution, his magic and shooting. If I had more models and rushed them forward this could have been avoided.

At the moment, I see no way out of this mess. I know Skaven are a difficult enemy and I am only a beginner in Warhammer but I hoped to do better than a total wipe out by round 5... :/ I had a few unfavourable rolls but nothing out of ordinary. Right now, I'm trying to find a way to have my revenge in my next battle. Spirit Hosts? Bat Swarms? Tomb Banshees? Two Terrorgheists? 120 zombies? I have no idea what could work here...

Thanks all for reading.

 

[hairyjeff]

I would check the doomwheel rules( book not to hand)- also Queek, Grey seer and 2 warlords feels a bit high points wise- not certain, but worth checking. Otherwise, keep plugging away- the tricks will come, and yoyr smiles will be endless.

 

[Wasteland Jack]

I am a fairly new warhammer player, however whenever I play it is against Skaven. My whole secret to playing skaven to to beat them at their own game, ranks. If you not let them win combat res it makes a huge difference. I recently fielded 2 x 30 units of zombies, 30 skeletons, and 30 crypt ghouls. Also, always try to remember fear tests. More often than not, it helps immensely. I always make sure I have more than three ranks, and always put a vampire/necromancer in close proximity to boost with nehek if necessary. The ABOMB is tough albeit, but just this past weekend a unit of 30 zombies made it flee not once, but twice.