2500 iceberg army

[Taijushue]

This is my first attempt at a VC list, im sure its not an optimal list I just really like the ability to summon so i made this "Iceberg" list as you can only see the tip of the iceberg.

Lords:
Vamp lord lvl 2 general
-powers: master of the black arts
-Items: biting blade, nightshroud, talisman of preservation, ironcursed icon

Heros:
Necro lvl 2 master of the dead
-items: dispel scroll
Vamp lvl 2 barded nightmare
-powers: summon creatures of the night
-items: armor of fortune, dragon gem,

Core:
5 dire wolfs doom wolf
5 dire wolfs doom wolf
20 zombies music standard
20 skellies fcg spears
20 skellies fcg spears
30 ghouls crypt ghast

special:
2 bat swarms
2 bat swarms
3 fell bats
5 black knights fcg lances
30 grave guard fcg banner of barrows
1 corpsecart balefire
1 corpsecart balefire

my idea was to deploy across the whole board having 3 main camps,

one flank: black knight/vamp with the bats and wolves
middle: 2 hordes vamp lord and a cart
other flank: skellies zombies necro and cart

might change their positions but those are the groups, then i take the first turn or 2 to boost the numbers of bats/skellies/wolves
then use the speed of the beast flank to hit combat at the same time as my center hordes. the skellie zombie flank is the basic shambling horde that will get there when it gets there but when it does it should be big enough to overwhelm whats left.


I know i am missing some of what appear to be popular choices (hexs, bloods, screamers) this is mostly because im still trying to learn all the goodness that is VC and their are lots of special rules for different units so i am focusing more on the basics of the army then slowly add in the shiny stuff as my skills get better.

any comments/suggestions are welcome and appreciated

 

[Bane]

Just a thought...against quite a few armies, topping out at lvl 2 will make it really hard to get your spells off.

Just yesterday I ran a lvl 4 VLord and 2 lvl 2 VHeroes against Lizardmen...lets just say my magic phase had issues. If I had only lvl 2s, I wouldn't have ever got a spell off.

 

[Taijushue]

Well i tried to edit the OP to update but it kept giving me an error.

I agree about the lvl 4, i figured the re-roll of winds of magic would help but it doesn't help at all with defense.
to do this i dropped the fell bats and standards from my core units and a couple magic items. i was also able to add a 15pt banner for the black knights and chose the movement banner to help keep them on pace with the wolves and swarms.

again any other suggestions/comments welcomed and appreciated

Lords:
Vamp lord lvl 4 general
-powers: master of the black arts
-Items: nightshroud, talisman of preservation

Heros:
Necro lvl 2 master of the dead
-items: dispel scroll
Vamp lvl 2 barded nightmare lance shield
-powers: summon creatures of the night
-items: armor of fortune

Core:
5 dire wolfs doom wolf
5 dire wolfs doom wolf
20 zombies music
20 skellies champ music spears
20 skellies champ music spears
30 ghouls crypt ghast

special:
2 bat swarms
2 bat swarms
5 black knights fcg lances +1 movement banner
30 grave guard fcg banner of barrows
1 corpsecart balefire
1 corpsecart balefire

 

[Seneschal]

Hello

I would concentrate on trying to raise just one type of unit. By trying to incorporate so many squads that need Summon creatures/lord of the dead, you are spreading yourself too thin, and the list is also little flimsy and doesn't have much in the way of damage output.
Drop the carts, they can't march and cost far too much for what they do.
I love bat swarms but they require a great deal of finesse to use so I'd put them off for now.
Grab 10 more GG and 10 more ghouls and try out horde formation.
Combine the skellies into a group of 35 with handweapon/shield. Spears don't let them get the 6+ parry save.
5 BK's with a character won't last very long. I'd drop them altogether and put the vamp on foot. Give him/her enchanted shield and heavy armor for defense. Sword of swift slaying will give you some rerolls to hit to increase your damage potential.
Nightshroud can go. Get the VL heavy armor, shield, dragonhelm, sword of might and other trickster's shard. Your list needs to be able to generate combat resolution and the best way to do that is through the offensive capabilities of a strong VL (Normally you would take red fury in place of MotBA).

With your extra points, try out some solo spirit host bases for cheap drops and redirectors. Units of 3 vargheists are good in any list so you may want to consider using them.

 

[Taijushue]

Scrapping this list all together rather than editing it beyond recognition. will post a new one soon, taking into consideration the suggestions here.

 

[Bullhax]

One of the best advices I can give you is to only take the minimum requirements of core, you're 145 points above this. Recommending bigger units is a must 20 Zombies will do just about nothing if you don't get to raise along the way, same goes for the Skeletons (as mentioned by Seneschal)..

If you plan on having a large bunker of GG's i would field some rare stuff along side it either to take some of the fire it will take from magic or to let them roam free... A varghulf or Terrorgheist that gets to roam completly free of fire is insane.. I've had that happen to me in many games where almost all the ranged/magic was thrown at the bunker only to find that my terrorgheist gobbled up a whole unit of knights with one scream..

Looking forward to your revised list and will hold off other comments till that is up.

 

[Taijushue]

Ok here is the new list, 2500

Lord:539
General-
Lvl 4 Vamp on hellsteed
Equip: Ha, Sh, Obsidian blade, dragonhelm, talisman of endurance, potion of foolhardiness
Powers: Quickblood, Red Fury

Hero:184
lvl 1 Vamp
Equip: Ha, Enchanted shield, dispel scroll
powers: aura of dark majesty, fear incarnate

Core:655
40 crypt ghouls, crypt ghast

30 skeleton warriors fcg screaming banner

5 dire wolves

Special:748
40 grave guard fcg banner of the barrows

6 crypt horrors

Rare:370
Black Coach

Varghulf
------------------------------------------------------------------

How does this list look?

I know the terrorgheist is one of the most popular choices but as i am just getting used to vamps i want to play a few games without them to get my basics down. Also my main opponent is brets who always has flamming bowmen and i dont want to give them the glory of killing the monster

 

[Seneschal]

Give your general the 4+ ward instead of the 5+. Take sword of might or ogre blade.
6 crypt horrors isn't enough. 8 is the minimum although you should probably not take them if you are worried about flaming arrows. Grab 2 units of 3 vargheists instead.
Drop the coach and bring 2 solo spirit hosts for deployment drops, cheap redirectors and sphinx tarpits.

Since your general is on a hellsteed and you are using an infantry army and no knights, your forces won't be benefiting from his aura. I would consider putting him on foot instead.

 

[Taijushue]

Lord:514
General-
Lvl 4 Vamp
Equip: Ha, Sh, Ogre blade, dragonhelm, talisman of preservation, ironcursed icon
Powers: Quickblood, Red Fury

Hero:184
lvl 1 Vamp
Equip: Ha, Enchanted shield, dispel scroll
powers: aura of dark majesty, fear incarnate

Core:655
40 crypt ghouls, crypt ghast

30 skeleton warriors fcg screaming banner

5 dire wolves

Special:796
40 grave guard fcg banner of the barrows

3 vargheists

3 vargheists

Rare:350
Varghulf

Varghulf
------------------------------------------------------------------
none of my friends play TK so not worried about sphinx, the only armies i play against regularly are brets and occasionally HE.

not too sure about the vargheists, i know it seems like everyone takes em but they are only T4 with no saves and can only heal 1w per invocation. how should i use them to keep them alive to reach combat, the bret army i plays always has 2 trebs with a hit on the center guy i can see the whole unit being dropped with one stone

 

[Seneschal]

If they target the vargheists, then the 'ghulfs are free to run rampant on whatever else.
If the center of each trio falls, you still have 2 more in each unit. I think you'll be fine. Remember that brets always let their opponent go first so they receive the blessing.

 

[Taijushue]

Thanks for all your help, gonna use that last updated list in my game, probably gonna try and get it in this week, ill try to make a write up for it so everyone here can correct what i assume will be many tactical errors.

the treb can kill all 3 vargheists tho in one shot, varg have 40mm base <2" and the treb uses a 3" template so the middle guy would be at str 10 and the 2 side guys would be hit at str 5, but with first turn i should be able to get them into position for at least an indirect fire shot

 

[Bullhax]

Thanks for all your help, gonna use that last updated list in my game, probably gonna try and get it in this week, ill try to make a write up for it so everyone here can correct what i assume will be many tactical errors.

the treb can kill all 3 vargheists tho in one shot, varg have 40mm base <2" and the treb uses a 3" template so the middle guy would be at str 10 and the 2 side guys would be hit at str 5, but with first turn i should be able to get them into position for at least an indirect fire shot

Hmm I never play against brets but your last statement seems to be false, the Trebuchet follows the rules of a stone thrower (except range, strenght and being stationary) therefore only the model under the hole of the template suffers the multi wound rule the other two would only ever lose a single wound... So no a treb. can't kill a whole unit of vargheists

The damage rule for stonethrowers is on p. 115 in the BRB


EDIT:

Totally forgot to comment on the army (DOH) looking really good! I think it's a solid VC starter list that will do really well overall

 

[Taijushue]

shit my bad, apologies.

as for deployment......

originally i planned on have lord in GG and hero in skellies.
but now taking a look at the list im wondering if i should put both the lord and hero in the unit of skellies and place them between the 2 hordes, my thinking behind this is that it will ensure that both units will easily be in march bubble, lord unit is protected on flanks, and i can then take death on the hero for ld 10 spirit leach to quickly drop his life mage.

then thinking of vargheist/varghulf on the extreme flanks since they dont have to stay close to march i might be able to completely encircle him, he usually comes full speed except with life mage unit, have the gheists fly straight for the trebs then turn around and hit him in the rear, and the ghulfs can hit him in the flanks.

the more i look at this list the more i like it.

one more question, would i be able to target his mage in the second rank of lance formation or only characters in the front rank?

 

[Seneschal]

I would put the GG in the center with the general. They swing last and have no reroll to hit ability unless you get a spell off unlike some armies out there (beastmen, high elves, dark elves etc.) so they need a tough vamp to help them out since you want them fighting an enemy elite unit.

For the last question, do you mean with a spell or with attacks? Attacks, no, spirit leech, yes.

 

[Taijushue]

yes i meant with spells.

so if i put the lord in with the gg and the hero to benefit from his ld, should i redo the hero and drop the skellies completely for zombies.

the whole reason i had the skellies were for the fear bomb, but without the hero in it they only have reroll fear test.

Here is an updated list to utilize death magic, changes to original in red



Lord:514
General-
Lvl 4 Vamp Vamp magic
Equip: Ha, Sh, Ogre blade, dragonhelm, talisman of preservation, ironcursed icon
Powers: Quickblood, Red Fury

Hero:169
lvl 1 Vamp Death
Equip: Ha, Enchanted shield, dispel scroll
powers: Quickblood

Core:626
40 crypt ghouls, crypt ghast

42 zombies music banner

5 dire wolves

5 dire wolves

Special:841
40 grave guard fcg banner of the barrows

3 vargheists

3 vargheists

1 spirit host

Rare:350
Varghulf

Varghulf
------------------------------------------------------------------

by getting rid of the fear bomb i was able to add 42 zombies(the extra 2 was to spend 6 points) that i can run 7x6, i was also able to add 2 more drops spirit host and wolves to help in the deployment, and changed the vamp hero to a basic strike first killer.

the only thing that worries me although there is nothing i can do about it is dwellers, everytime i have lost to my friends brets or almost lost with my dark elves was when dwellers took out my money units/heros.

although with vamps it shouldnt be as much of a worry with str 5 vamps and str 4 gg much better than the str3 elves.

 

[Seneschal]

I wouldn't field zombies with a frontage wider than 5. They fall easily and give the enemy a lot of CR while not doing much in the way of damage themselves.

 

[Taijushue]

I know i keep saying just one more question, but seeing as how my friend cant play a game till next week, tough week at law school this week, i might as well get as much advice as i can before then.

so here is yet another question....

Knowing that im going to be playing against brets, which means all units in lance formation, should i bother with horde formation?

With the knights frontage 5 models are in base contact, meaning in horde formation i get a base 16A w/champ (21 for ghouls)

or i could put them in 7 wide formation losing 5 attacks but adding 3 ranks.

so against his normal size of 12 knights, 4 ranks, i can break his steadfast easier, not to mention i will be able to maneuver better and fit more units in the 12" march bubble.

I know my horde would destroy a horde of men at arms but he almost never brings MaA and if he does they are 5 wide for steadfast.

 

[Seneschal]

There is never a problem with asking any questions.

I would definitely go with a smaller frontage. Heck, go with 5 so his knight units won't get all of their swings on you. Be wary that he will notice this and attempt to flank you with one of the squads, however.

 

[Taijushue]

i think i will take a look at what he is bringing, luckily choosing frontage is not part of your army list so i can see if he has brought any men at arms but yes 7 wide would be a waste as he can only get 5 of my models in base with his lance, with 7 wide he could get 2 full lances worth of attacks if he double charged, at 5 wide he can still get 2 lances in the combat but at least he will miss 1 column of each unit worth of attacks.

my gg will be protected in the center of the battle line with ghouls and zombies on each flank, i plan to use the varghulfs to somewhat guard my flanks, have them a ways off the the side to threaten anyone trying to get into position to flank my main units. I have a feeling the 2 varghulfs will do great, they will be striking simo or before all his stuff besides combat characters and his knights really blow if they dont get the charge off( ive had a unit of 10 basic Cold one knights, hold from a dual charge of Knights errant and grail knights, lasted 3 rounds till my champ(still alive) fled but ended up running off the board)

sorry few too many shots tonight so went off on a little tangent there.

I believe i will do well in this game, while i do not have a lot of experience with VC, my opponent doesnt have a lot of experience against VC (he used to play them but i believe that was back in 5/6th edition) so i think the vargheists and varghulfs will play a big pysch part of my army.


Thank you for all your insight I really like how helpful people are on these forums, not just CN but druchii.net and the roundtable, I've been playing for close to 10 years and cant believe how much better my tactics/skills have gotten in the past year that i have been checking out the forums.

 

[Seneschal]

You've got some good ideas there , they should pay off for you.

Best of luck with the game and it's a pleasure to help, it's what we are all here for! CN is the best community going today. I like it here so much that I'm rarely anywhere else now, lol.

 

[Taijushue]

yeah i used to spend hours on druchii.net everyday now i am moving to vamps to learn something new, i use roundtable just when me and my friend have a question about his rules.

 

[Seneschal]

Druchii is cool, I haven't been there in forever.
The Round Table is one of the better forums nowadays and they keep experimenting, which is nice.

 

[Taijushue]

Yeah round table is cool and full of helpful people. i'm slowly making my way around to em all, my main army is dark elves but have many other armies to play with, my girlfriends VC, i gave my kids my dwarfs and gobbos, and my friends brets. all are at my disposal as my friend is in law school and doesnt have the storage space to keep it and im the only one with a couple gaming tables to play on. I'm hoping eventually between me and my family/close friends that we will have armies for all the fantasy races. There are 5 of us so far but we also have a 5 year old so a few more years and I will have to get him started, he has 50 mini's so far some dwarfs with spears that were sent by mistake from em4