2500 point list pointers

[heldantes]

Hi guys,

I played against dwarves and chaos with a main block of 40 grave guard and got a crushing victory against the dwarf and a victory against the chaos.

However I am worried about the next tournament which I know will involve a high elf player using nasty combos with his Phoenix Guard and White Lions allowing him to spam IF with a 2+ WS.

For this reason I was thinking of using the speed of black knights. I'm hoping the combined might of my Vamp Lord, giving ASL to the three in base contact and my other vampire plus four attacks from the black knights and hopefully, after about 15 attacks from his horde, some rank bonuses, I'll win combat easily and chase them down.

Everything else including the grave guard horde (which he'll expect as my main unit) are redirecters basically.

Any advice or criticism is welcome!

Thanks for your time.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Ok, First things first

1. If I do my math correctly I think that your Vamp Lord has too many points of magic items on him.
2. Drop Sword of Might and take a standard lance, +2S once should do the trick to win combat.
3. Drop Dreadknight. You want your vamp sucking up combat res and killing the little weaklings. You don't want him in a challenge.
4. Take a mounted wight king with a lance and give him the Night Shroud and the Enchanted Shield.
5. Add Quickblood and another level to your Vamp Lord.
6. You haven't reached your minimum core in this list yet.
7. You're going to want a total of 3 ranks of 5 Knights in this list. That means that if you have 2 characters then you'll want 13 knights, 3 charaters and 12 knights. Either way will work.
8. After playing with Grave Guard quite a bit I've noticed that they really need character support to make them shine. I would either drop them for Crypt Horrors, or take a baby blender and put him with the grave guard.

Well I hope I gave you some food for thought! Welcome to the forums!!

 

[technocow]

4. Take a mounted wight king with a lance and give him the Night Shroud and the Enchanted Shield.

Isn't the night shroud magic armour and so cannot be coupled with the enchanted shield?

 

[heldantes]

Oh sorry for some reason it didn't, or more like I didnt, add the other 4 zombie units and 5 dire wolves!

I think my magic items add up: 15 points for sword of might, 45 for preservation and 40 for night shroud. I am using battlescribe though so haven't double checked the AB.

You've made my head spin with the suggestions so I will need to take some time considering them! Thanks for the thorough break down.

I was planning on having my cavalry in a row of 3. That is legal, right? I swear I read that.

Also I kind of wanted my vamp Lord in combat to 1: get rid of whoever challenges me (I killed a demon prince in one turn); 2: send any wimps to the back; 3:kill a heck load if I don'tneed to challenge.

I've thought about quick blood but am hoping for Vanhel's to give me rerolls and night shroud will effectively give me first strike. I like the idea of giving that to whoever is next to him though for the same effect.

Oh dread knight is to make most ws 3 and 4 people hit on 5+. I was thinking with only three rows, two being my vampires, even if the enemy is in a horde they will have 15 attacks. Around 6 or so will have to be directed against my vampire and from the countless rolling I've done has never succeeded in killing me (trialled PG, white lions and hammerer).

I am now wondering if 3 knights across is not advised for a reason though. Do they not get rank bonus or cause disruption if only 3 across?

 

[technocow]

Sword of might is 20 points not 15, so at the moment your vamp is 5 points over his magical items allowance.

3 across is legal however as you said they don't get rank bonuses and do not cause disruption charging into the flank or rear. Though I must say I do like the idea of 3 across since attacks would have to be allocated to vamps and champion (which IoN resurects first = always blocking combat res if you can cast an IoN)

I'd get rid of aura of dark majesty and dread knight and boost your lord to a lvl 4 wizard. I'd also swap banner of the barrows for banner of swiftness - especially if you want minimum frontage since your limiting the support attacks of the knights and thus limiting the banners usefulness. - Though I am new to VC so I dont know how useful my advice will be in game. Corien seems to know his stuff inside out - i'd listen to him

 

[heldantes]

That is amazing help. I will drop the sword of might for a lance, and drop a couple of grave guard to make him a level 4 wizard, although if I go for 3 across then in a perfect world I will only be losing my champion!

However, with a level 4 wizard I am now inclined to have my knights wider across.

You are right about the banner which i have given back to my grave guard and have given the knights the banner of swiftness.

This has been much more informative and helpful than I could have hoped: thanks!

Does anyone know what page it describes the rules for cavalry row length? I can't find it anywhere. On another forum someone has said cavalry get a rank bonus if 4 wide? This sounds suspicious.

 

[technocow]

I was under the impression that everything except monstrous infantry was 5 wide for a rank, though atm I'm struggling to find where it says this in the rulebook.

 

[heldantes]

There is a picture in the 8th edition rulebook with some bretonnians in 5 ranks of 3 or something (one of the first big pictures). Other that, I can't find any reference to where I am 100% I read "because of base sizes cavalry can be 3 across".

 

[technocow]

There is a picture in the 8th edition rulebook with some bretonnians in 5 ranks of 3 or something (one of the first big pictures). Other that, I can't find any reference to where I am 100% I read "because of base sizes cavalry can be 3 across".

Bretonia caqn go 3 wide for a full rank because of an army special rule "Lance formation" - though actually thatarmy book does say 3 models wide instead of 4 for a full rank, i just cant find where it says 4 wide for cavalry ranks in the rulebook

 

[heldantes]

I might pop into store today and see what they think.

1) cavalry gain a rank bonus for 3 wide would make them super powerful
2) cavalry can be 3 wide but only get a rank bonus for 5 wide would mean I can still use my strategy
3) cavalry can only go 5 wide unless have a special rule, and I'm back to grave guard hordes.

 

[heldantes]

I ended up with a block of 9 knights, 3 by 3, and then 3 vampires up front Inc my vamp Lord.

Long story short, he had about 6 cannon shots against them, and a couple died (iron curse was handy) and when I hit his horde of longbeards, it was a massacre and went from there

This was just a friendly and we were just trying things out. However, I hope now that I should be able to beat my other friend's cheesey High Elf list with some cheese of my own!

Thanks for all the help.

 

[heldantes]

I ended up with a block of 9 knights, 3 by 3, and then 3 vampires up front Inc my vamp Lord.

Long story short, he had about 6 cannon shots against them, and a couple died (iron curse was handy) and when I hit his horde of longbeards, it was a massacre and went from there

This was just a friendly and we were just trying things out. However, I hope now that I should be able to beat my other friend's cheesey High Elf list with some cheese of my own!

Thanks for all the help.

 

[heldantes]

I ended up with a block of 9 knights, 3 by 3, and then 3 vampires up front Inc my vamp Lord.

Long story short, he had about 6 cannon shots against them, and a couple died (iron curse was handy) and when I hit his horde of longbeards, it was a massacre and went from there

This was just a friendly and we were just trying things out. However, I hope now that I should be able to beat my other friend's cheesey High Elf list with some cheese of my own!

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

4. Take a mounted wight king with a lance and give him the Night Shroud and the Enchanted Shield.

Isn't the night shroud magic armour and so cannot be coupled with the enchanted shield?

Yep, I'm an Idiot lol.

Though I am new to VC so I dont know how useful my advice will be in game. Corien seems to know his stuff inside out - i'd listen to him

Don't listen to me too much! Lol but thank you Technocow!

After reading throught this little debate on the whole cav thing I would like to say that: Cav can be placed in any formation (1 column by 5 ranks is legal) although you only get rank bonuses if you have 5 or more columns unless you are Monsterous Infantry or Monsterous Cavalry. Bretonnians are the only army with the "Lance Formation" special rule (They get rank bonuses from being 3 wide).

I'm glad you did well in your game!! Cannons can be scary but you held them off so good job!