2500 very competitive list

[eggsPR]

Mannfred Von muthaf*%cking Carstein

Necro, lvl 2
Cursed Book

Vamp, lvl 1
Dragonhelm
Seed of Rebirth
Dispel Scroll
Beguile
Great Weapon

30 Ghouls, Ghast

33 Zombies, Standard

33 Zombies, Standard

20 Zombies, Standard

5 Dire Wolves

Spirit Host

2 Bat Swarms

29 Grave Guard, GW, FC, Barrows

3 Vargheists

Corpse Cart, Lodestone

Mortis Engine, Tome

2500 on the nose

 

[Bravo_10]

This list looks extremely solid. I do kinda question the decision to take Manny, but I suppose he really isn't all that much more expensive than a maxed out Vampire Lord caster anyway. Also, I quite like the decision to take the Seed of Rebirth with the Mortis Engine. Never thought of that combo.

There is one thing though: if you're taking a big block of Grave Guard with the Banner of the Barrows, why not go with a Wight King BSB instead of a Vampire fighter? He's considerably less expensive, automatically has Killing Blow, and is a lot tougher than the T4, 2 wound vamp. Plus, his to-hit rolls will be modified by the BotB, whereas the Vampire's won't.

 

[Tawg]

This list looks extremely solid. I do kinda question the decision to take Manny, but I suppose he really isn't all that much more expensive than a maxed out Vampire Lord caster anyway. Also, I quite like the decision to take the Seed of Rebirth with the Mortis Engine. Never thought of that combo.

There is one thing though: if you're taking a big block of Grave Guard with the Banner of the Barrows, why not go with a Wight King BSB instead of a Vampire fighter? He's considerably less expensive, automatically has Killing Blow, and is a lot tougher than the T4, 2 wound vamp. Plus, his to-hit rolls will be modified by the BotB, whereas the Vampire's won't.

To enable holding a Dispel and a Cursed book. Wight king doesn't get an arcane slot.

I'd be interested in running this list competitively.

Any input on how you deploy normally Egg? Like Rank x File for zombies or ghouls, or even GG? Just curious how you usually run it, or if there are specific things you change up when facing certain opponents (You seem to be knowledgeable on the gaming end of the spectrum).

The hero's get deployed with the Zombies? GG? I assume the Mortis/CC stay around the necro/zombies, at least at the beginning. Also do you have any advice about the 'Chariot' units we have? When ever I field one, I am terrified to put it into combat (CC especially) since I find it fielded near my more 'Tar-pit-y' units of zombies, and I am loathe to put it into combat with them, for fear that the zombies will accidentally pop the chariot with CR. The CC's random attacks also scares me, since it could have awful rounds of combat (And thus bad CR).. is it worth putting them in for the impact hits? Or better to keep them away and just play their support role for the casting buffs?

Thanks for the input.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

The Mortis Engine's regen ability seems invaluable, and can combine with other wargear choices very effectively. Damn, if only it wasn't so darn big and would fit in my model's case. (That and the fact I have enough rare to play at 4k points but not enough anything else...!)

The only thing I'd question is the Cursed book. Sure, it's cool, but what about the Rod of Flaming death? At 2.5k you are practically guaranteed to face an enemy horde of some description; this bound item will stop that horde in its tracks for a turn, which can be invaluable. If it doesn't stop them moving, it'll kill an absolute crapload of the critters anyway.

Solid list, though. Me likey.

 

[eggsPR]

This list looks extremely solid. I do kinda question the decision to take Manny, but I suppose he really isn't all that much more expensive than a maxed out Vampire Lord caster anyway. Also, I quite like the decision to take the Seed of Rebirth with the Mortis Engine. Never thought of that combo.

There is one thing though: if you're taking a big block of Grave Guard with the Banner of the Barrows, why not go with a Wight King BSB instead of a Vampire fighter? He's considerably less expensive, automatically has Killing Blow, and is a lot tougher than the T4, 2 wound vamp. Plus, his to-hit rolls will be modified by the BotB, whereas the Vampire's won't.

To enable holding a Dispel and a Cursed book. Wight king doesn't get an arcane slot.

I'd be interested in running this list competitively.

Any input on how you deploy normally Egg? Like Rank x File for zombies or ghouls, or even GG? Just curious how you usually run it, or if there are specific things you change up when facing certain opponents (You seem to be knowledgeable on the gaming end of the spectrum).

The hero's get deployed with the Zombies? GG? I assume the Mortis/CC stay around the necro/zombies, at least at the beginning. Also do you have any advice about the 'Chariot' units we have? When ever I field one, I am terrified to put it into combat (CC especially) since I find it fielded near my more 'Tar-pit-y' units of zombies, and I am loathe to put it into combat with them, for fear that the zombies will accidentally pop the chariot with CR. The CC's random attacks also scares me, since it could have awful rounds of combat (And thus bad CR).. is it worth putting them in for the impact hits? Or better to keep them away and just play their support role for the casting buffs?

Thanks for the input.

Yes I'm running the Vamp because of his arcane slot. The Vamp will most likely go in with the ghouls (in a horde formation). Sometimes I find ghouls have a little trouble with high AS things, so that's when the vamp will tip the scales with his S7, corpse-cart-activated ASF so he'll be swinging in his Initiative... the GG won't need his assistance.

I'll deploy the zombies 5 wide for each unit and raise as many as i can and make the ranks as deep as I can. I don't know how people have been deploying the Mortis Engine, but I deploy mine behind my front line, next to my corpse cart.

Manny goes into the GG in with fron line, and the level 2 necro goes into the 20 zombie bunker (also behind the front line). He's only an extra dispel scroll caddie and ION spam caster as well as insurance if Manny dies. The necro being level 2 will cast as if he's a level 4 being next to the engine.

The Vargheists will be deployed wayyyy out to one flank near warmachines with maybe a lucky turn 2 charge. I do not expect these to live much as they'll get targeted, however that's fine with me because every cannonball, bolt thrower, rock lobber etc that fires on them are preserving my army's core machines like the cart and engine.

Spirit hosts will be between the ghouls and GG and redirect or hunt war hydras. The wolves will perform similar roles, however they may hunt warmachines or skinks AFTER turn 1. One casting of ION from Manny and those wolves grow to a unit of 10. At that point if the wolves fo off on their own, Manny can always raise dead and create zombie redirectors if needed.

Of course, the Swarms will be near the GG, HOWEVER not next to them! Keeping them a few units away from them makes your opponent think less of them, but really this is where they make a big mistake. If the Bats are far enough away, the way the frontages work out, the bats will most likey get a flank charge if they are a few units away from the GG. So, the GG charge straight, and the bats charge diagonally but with flying, the extra range is not an issue, and a duel charge like this is devasting especially combined with the corpse cart if it can catch up with a 12" bubble Van Hels.

I would totally run with the Rod of Falming Death if I could afford it, and the only points I could shave would be from the GG, and I don't want to go any lower than 29. I could replace the Vamp with a WK holding it, however with my magic heavy list, the cursed book will draw out more DD and synergize more with this list. Instead of Rodding hordes, I'll just Purple Sun them with Manny!

So my battline would look kinda like this.

Vargheist......................Ghouls.Bats.Zombies.Spirit.GG.Zombies..Wolves
..................................................CC.Engine.Zombies

Oh and thanks for the feedback... you know you're onto something when the 1,000+ posts members/mods give out approval stamps

 

[Yorga]

Too bad none of our tournaments allow Lord level special characters. :frown:


Umm...and I think you have the curse book and dispel scroll under the wrong characters in your initial post based on what you said above.

 

[eggsPR]

Too bad none of our tournaments allow Lord level special characters. :frown:


Umm...and I think you have the curse book and dispel scroll under the wrong characters in your initial post based on what you said above.

Yeah this tourny allows some Special Characters, Manny flew underneath the radar!

Yes you were right, I changed the wording. Initially the vamp had the Book, but then I couldn't squeze in both the Seed and Dragonhelm, so the necro swapped his less costly Scroll to make it all work Nice catch!

 

[Mikael.K]

Looks like a good list, even though the vargheists will be a bit unpredictable. Something that generally is not very good when going competative. A varghulf could do the same job more reliably. Then there is the vargheist vs varghulf debate that I wont go into here.

For your vampire, you could also go with the sword of might and red fury combo. With the corpse cart you get to strike first with re-rolls, S6 and the potential to have more attacks due to red fury. Still, you have a solid combo already, just saying...

 

[eggsPR]

Looks like a good list, even though the vargheists will be a bit unpredictable. Something that generally is not very good when going competative. A varghulf could do the same job more reliably. Then there is the vargheist vs varghulf debate that I wont go into here.

For your vampire, you could also go with the sword of might and red fury combo. With the corpse cart you get to strike first with re-rolls, S6 and the potential to have more attacks due to red fury. Still, you have a solid combo already, just saying...

That's true and all, however if I'd make those changes I'd have to shave 84 points somewhere for the same functionality, and I'd lose Beguile so my Hero would become less of a challenge threat and a tad more squishy. He'll be in the ghouls so I won't need the rank/file killer adjustment.

Yeah, the Vargheists do the same thing for 37 less points. I find Frenzy to not being a pain - I deploy them facing away from the enemy, land them outside of redirectors' vision arcs etc... I haven't had to take a Leadership test for a charge with them for 2 games.

Good suggestions though, but I'd have to either cut out my bats or make my GG from 29 to 22 for roughly the same functionality ;(

 

[Mikael.K]

Really looking forward to hearing how you do with your list .

 

[Ordo Bob]

There is no longer a restriction preventing characters from joining Zombies.

 

[Arketon]

I'm sorry, but no matter how hard I try, your list comes up as 2502 total, with only 623 in core when you need at least 625. Depending how strick your torney orgs, that may cause a prob. If you replace GW on the vamp with aditional hand weapon and add a zomb to the bunker, you'll just about fit in. juast my 0.02 cents you know.

 

[eggsPR]

Placed 9th overall out of 22, but at least I won Best Painted Army

0-20 loss against High Elves (Lord on Star Dragon ate the back of my army for lunch)
20-0 win against Empire (gunline, lucky regen saves on the Engine, Spirit Hosts tied up Steam Tank, GG won combat against a Knight bus including his Level 4 mage and Arch Lector, a last turn Purple Sun auto-killing his Steam Tank and gunline really allowed me to rack up the points)
20-0 win against High Elves (Death sniped his General, and 30 White lions lost combat against GG, flanked Bats, and rear charged Vargheists)
8-12 loss against High Elves (should've been 10-10 had I didn't screw up the movement phase in the last turn)
6-14 loss against Dark Elves (Manny dimensionally cascaded turn 1, otherwise this would have been a 20-0 to me)

If I'd change anything I would have shaved points somewhere to include a Terrorgheist. Also, I'd include all the zombies in just 2 units - the 20 zombie bunker was pointless.

Overall you have to slow-play this list and let them come to you (unless against gunlines). IT will absolutely wreck Ogres, and out of the 5 OK players, I didn't play them once :mad2:

Purple Sun threat was never really there as Elves Int is so high... If I knew I'd play Elves 4 out of 5 games, I would have chosen a level 4 Combat Lord... oh well.

If I don't play Elves for another year I'd be soooo happy.

 

[Hansol]

well 9th out of 22 not bad,

Possible you can post your final/tweak list after your games?

Tnx =)

 

[rothgar13]

I'd like to know how this list will wreck Ogres, outside of lobbing P-Suns at them. Mournfangs can obliterate a Zombie unit on the charge, Ironguts already have Great Weapons so Bat Swarms do nothing but bleed combat resolution, and then there's the Hellheart. Pray tell how you deal with them.

 

[eggsPR]

outside of lobbing P-Suns at them.

With Ogres you only need 1 P sun No really, 1 purple sun and it's game over. The tournament was open list and no hell hearts were present due to the comp restrictions.

Raise dead, raise dead, speed bump, speed bump.

Mournfang, meet spirit host, then meet flank charging GG. Thanks for playing.

Hey Iron guts, meet my poison attack rerolling (Int 3 vs 2) ghoul hits from activated corpse cart.

Death snipe low leadership characters with Leech, Caress, and Fate with ease.

But wait, all this is situational and u never know how things will deploy... this lists averages 2-3 more drops than an average OK army with a couple units of knoblars and sabertusks as chaff. You create the matchups.

This list wrecked OK in the 3 games I played them by 2 different and very good OK players. Finally, 1 P sun defeats the entire army if angled correctly

 

[TobiasRathein]

outside of lobbing P-Suns at them.

With Ogres you only need 1 P sun No really, 1 purple sun and it's game over. The tournament was open list and no hell hearts were present due to the comp restrictions.

Raise dead, raise dead, speed bump, speed bump.

Mournfang, meet spirit host, then meet flank charging GG. Thanks for playing.

Hey Iron guts, meet my poison attack rerolling (Int 3 vs 2) ghoul hits from activated corpse cart.

Death snipe low leadership characters with Leech, Caress, and Fate with ease.

But wait, all this is situational and u never know how things will deploy... this lists averages 2-3 more drops than an average OK army with a couple units of knoblars and sabertusks as chaff. You create the matchups.

This list wrecked OK in the 3 games I played them by 2 different and very good OK players. Finally, 1 P sun defeats the entire army if angled correctly

Sorry dude, but unless you're rolling gangbusters it's highly unlikely VC are going to stomp the OK the way you're saying if the players are as good as you say.

When you add in the charges and impact hits and stomps alone that is usually more than enough static combat res to cause most VC units to crumble. If he runs his mournfangs into your spirit host, or lets you do that to him, he is not a very good player. You seem to be forgetting your ghouls still need 5+ to wound. When they get their return attacks that unit will get savaged. I've played an average OK player many, many times and he would crap on this list.

Not trying to be a dick or anything; just saying that the list could be improved in quite a few ways but you fail to see that.

 

[eggsPR]

Is it the best list in the world? Noooo way. It's not invincible or bent like those generic cookie-cutter Daemon lists you see.

Would it wreck Ogres? Yes :tongue:

Rerolling poison give you A LOT of poison... so those 5+ to wounds isn't a game changer. Bubble Vigor if it worries you that much.

Finally, and I didn't think I mentioned this before... But 1 Purple Sun and it's 'hasta la vista baby'

But you're totally right, it could be better.

 

[datalink7]

Is it the best list in the world? Noooo way. It's not invincible or bent like those generic cookie-cutter Daemon lists you see.

Would it wreck Ogres? Yes :tongue:

Rerolling poison give you A LOT of poison... so those 5+ to wounds isn't a game changer. Bubble Vigor if it worries you that much.

Finally, and I didn't think I mentioned this before... But 1 Purple Sun and it's 'hasta la vista baby'

But you're totally right, it could be better.

I think the point is that your list won't wreck ogres. Casting purple sun isn't your list wrecking ogres, it's purple sun wrecking ogres, which any number of armies have access to.

I play Ogres as my main army (Vamps are a close second). I don't play Hellheart in most of my lists, and even so I wouldn't mind going against your list. It wouldn't be an easy sweep necessarily, but I wouldn't feel threatened by the particular list outside of its access to purple sun. I think you underestimate Ogres. They are a tough match up.

 

[rothgar13]

I also think he's underestimating the heck out of Ogres, especially because this list only has 1 answer to the entire army, and it's magic-based. A savvy OK player brings Gnoblars and Sabretusks to not get out-deployed, packs the Dragonhide Banner on his unit of Mournfangs to blast the Spirit Host out of his way, and those sniper spells had better roll REAL high, because they have 4 Wounds, S4, and T5 on the wimpiest of their characters (and gods help you if he brought Sniping Maneaters). Also, no Hellheart, but Purple Sun spam is fine? What kind of silly double standard is that?

 

[Yorga]

Also, no Hellheart, but Purple Sun spam is fine? What kind of silly double standard is that?

Umm...I think he was talking about tournament comp restrictions. People running tournaments are coming down real heavy on the Hellheart for comp. As someone pointed out, many armies have access to Purple Sun and spells are usually not factored into comp considerations. Personally if I was running a tournament I would not allow any #6 spells or the Dreaded. Just outright ban. I think that would make Warhammer a bit more fair.

 

[eggsPR]

Also, no Hellheart, but Purple Sun spam is fine? What kind of silly double standard is that?

Umm...I think he was talking about tournament comp restrictions. People running tournaments are coming down real heavy on the Hellheart for comp. As someone pointed out, many armies have access to Purple Sun and spells are usually not factored into comp considerations. Personally if I was running a tournament I would not allow any #6 spells or the Dreaded. Just outright ban. I think that would make Warhammer a bit more fair.

You're correct, it was a tournament restriction. The Greedy Fist was also banned. All lists were comped, for instance VC couldn't have more than 2 etheals, more than 6 vargheists in a unit, max 1 terrorgheist, among other things.

Look people, I didn't mean to start this big argument over OK and VC on this list. It was not designed to wreck OK (it was an all comers list), but like I said played OK 3 times with those tourny restrictions on their lists, and I won 20-0, 16-4, and 19-1. I'm just speaking from experience. Did I get purple sun off? Yes. Lucky rolls? You betcha! Without purple sun could I have beaten the lists... probably not, and definately not win something like a 19-1.

Would I have rather played OK during the tourny instead of Elves? Hellls yes! That was my original point. That's it.

I'm not trying to argue, just making a point that playing OK in THAT tourny would've shot me further up the rankings. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's a shame my other BK list isn't getting this much attention... it's a tooled out BK bus list designated for taking out Double Slann and Daemon lists titled "2400 Competitive BK Bus", and that would wreck OK, without purple sun

 

[rothgar13]

Black Knights of any stripe struggle mightily against Ogres. Not enough Wounds to go around. You can hit them all you want, those Ironguts will get to swing back, and when they do, your Knights will die. I assumed that "no Hellheart" would have something to do with comp restrictions, but it's a misguided comp that caps magic defense without taking out the spells it's supposed to defend you from. That was my point. To be honest with you, they can run 8th ed. armies (O&G, OK, TK, VC) uncomped these days - the external balance is remarkable.

Either way, let me get back on topic and contribute some. I'm not as high on Zombies as some folks here (especially not in those starting numbers, which I feel are a bit low), and I really like having 2 squads of Wolves, especially if Ethereals get comped, so I'd pack the Zombies into slightly larger starting units, as well as field another unit of 5 Wolves.