3 Leadership Based Screams

[Strig]

Greetings all,

I am curious if I have all my P's and Q's straight about these 3 attacks.

The Wrath + Banshee Unit Upgrade:
This scream is 2D6 plus 2 VS opponents Ld.
They can use General Leadership/strength in numbers etc as per FAQ
If she is in combat, she can only scream at unit in base to base with her

The Hero Banshee
This scream is 2d6 + 2 Vs Opp. Ld
However no FAQ has been issued on this attack, as such, we compare our roll + 2 to the Ld on the profile. If she is in combat, she can only scream at unit in base to base with her


Terrorgheist:
2D6 + wounds remaining VS Opp. Ld
As with the Hero Banshee, no FAQ on generals leadership/Strength in numbers. The scream can also only be used against the unit in B2B if its engaged.

Can we scream at a unit that is engaged? Or since this is a special type of "shooting", we are not allowed by the cant shoot at engaged units rule?

Thanks for any help!

- Strig

 

[Bravo_10]

For one, you can never scream into combat with a Banshee (it's stated in the Vampire Counts FAQ). Also, the descriptions for the Terrorgheist and hero Banshee say nothing about attacking the target's UNMODIFIED leadership, so they should still be able to use the General's LD and the Strength in Numbers rule.

Lastly, the TG can't stand and shoot, while the rare-choice Banshee can. Both aren't technically "shooting," but it's specified in the Banshee's description that she can S&S.

 

[Trevy the Great]

This is all very complicated.

My .02ç, now please carry on.

 

[Strig]

Complicated indeed!

Now I dont have my WD or book with me at the moment, so my statements may be off, and if so I apologize.


In regards to the TerroGheist,
I think Inspiring Prescence says you may use General's leadership for leadership tests. But because this scream is not a Ld test, would this disallow Inspiring presence? To that same point, BSB reroll is not allowed as its not a leadership test.

For the Wraiths,
I had never used a wraith unit upgrade, so I wasnt sure about Screaming into combat. And the FAQ is the only source for allowing IP and Strength in numbers VS the Banshee unit upgrade I think?

My head hurts! But thank you all for the input.

- Strig

 

[Bravo_10]

Sorry, but the Inspiring Presence rule simply states that all friendly units within 12" may use his leadership instead of their own. It doesn't specify that it's only for leadership tests. However, you are right about not being able to use the BSB to re-roll the scream dice because it is in fact NOT a leadership test.

And the Strength In Numbers rule is the same way, it is simply an addition to your leadership value.

 

[Strig]

I gotcha! I gotta remember to bring my books with me lol.

Now as to using the generals leadership instead of their own. For something like Okkam's, it used to be that you could use the general's leadership but they FAQed that to say its the Ld on profile.

Anyone think they will do that for this?

I appreciate all the input!

Thanks

- Strig

 

[Bravo_10]

I feel like they might FAQ it someday, as it seems kinda weird that being inspired by your general has anything to do with getting your soul sucked out through your eye sockets. o_o But I'm afraid that, because GW wrote the rules for the TG so recently, that there won't be anything for quite sometime, possibly not even until we get a new army book. And think of how overpowered it would be against Skaven if they couldn't use SiN/Inspiring Presence. They could potentially lose over 10 guys per scream.

 

[Stefan von Carstein]

how would doom and darkness (-3 ld) affect a unit being screamed at? Is it just a reduction to THAT unit's ld or, would it affect an ispired unit. E.g. a chaos warrior unit is affected by d&d (making them ld5) but are within 12" of a chaos lord (ld9), would the banshee be screaming against ld9 or ld6?

 

[Lynks]

leadership 6 Stefan

 

[MalumMonachus]

did everybody realise this:
According to my understanding of the rules, the TG can even scream at enemies in CC and not in his forward arc only, even when he is not engaged with these units himself:

The requirement for the scream is LOS (360!) and range.

For shooting the additional requirements of 'in forward arc' and 'unengaged' are added, but the scream is not a shooting attack... It's a special attack in the CC phase, so these are not applicable for the TG scream.

So our daemon enemies with thirsters charging into CC with other units are not safe: Just scream him to death while tarpitting him! yum yum

 

[eggsPR]

@ MalumMonachus, I'm not sure that you're saying is entirely correct.

I've been using the Terrorgheist for many games now, and it's been concluded that:

a) I need line of sight (using arc) to scream.
b) Cannot scream into CC, same not being able to shoot into CC.
c) When in CC, Ghesit can scream at target in the shooting phase, and then attack target in CC phase.

If you can convince me that the TG has 360 degree shooting without line of sight, AND can shoot into CC while not engaged in CC, I'll be your best friend!

 

[MalumMonachus]

If you can convince me that the TG has 360 degree shooting without line of sight, AND can shoot into CC while not engaged in CC, I'll be your best friend!

Without repeating myself (which I cannot):
At first I was in the same ballpark as you, but I realised the following:

The Scream is not a shooting attack, it is a special attack in the Shooting fase and it does not follow the shooting rules, but its own. For this reason we cannot stand and shoot for example.

If you check the LOS rules (page 10), there's nothing about being in the front arc. The front arc bit addition, and not being able to shoot at something in CC, is only included in the rules for shooting (page 39, choose a target). The scream does not follow the rules for shooting.

It could even mean that you could use the special attack after failing a charge. I'm not saying the rules are intended to be like this, I'm just following them as they stand. I expect that there will be a Q&A disallowing to use the scream into combat or 360.

 

[Mad 'At]

The rule for LOS dose however say that for one model to see another, you must be able to trace an unblocked line from its eyes to any pat the targets body. So unless your terrorgeist is represented by a converted spawn or something, and has eyes all around it, it cannot see in 360 degrees.

Personally I think that the true line of sight rule is the worst part of 8th, it shouldn’t matter at all what models you use. My own converted wyvern for example is a sitting duck that can be seen (and shoot at) from anywhere on the table. I don't play with him anymore because he can't hide.

 

[Annie]

from what i gather...

RARE BANSHEE
can stand and shoot.... 'cos it says so

HERO BANSHEE AND GHEIST
can't stand and shoot as it states they just take place in the shooting phase.

Then I assume all need LOS (arc), and can only scream into combat theyre in.

The leadership of the scream-ee is whatever they'd get for a test (but it not a test) so can use generals or strength in numbers, otherwise it would say "unmodified". This is double edged anyway as doom and darkness wouldn't have any effect if it was "unmodified".

I think I made it sound simple... is it that simple?

It would be so much easier if GW wrote everything in black and white! I'm fed up of getting FAQs everywhere during games.

 

[Uthiliano]

It is that simple indeed ...
And you made it sound simple...
But trust me... these few lines took hundreds of comments to conclude all around the forums...

Some guy in Denmark even wrote the GW staff (no surprise) and got a response (big surprise) and they told him that they could S&S as the banshee in the book... (but no one takes that seriously ofc as they always say something and then change it in the next FAQ)

/Uthiliano