3000 point VC list...

[Zaggo]

Hi guys,

First of all, I am very impressed with your forum here - there's loads of good stuff for someone like myself, who is still reasonably new to the VC list.

I have been playing warhammer for about 15 years but until about six months ago hadn't touched the VC list!

I picked up a copy of the new book and after milling it over for a couple of months took the plunge and bought about 2k worth of stuff - (the new washes made painting this a joy!:lol

I have played a number of games at 1k and 2k and had reasonable success and lots of fun - the list is def. one of the funnest i've used...

Anywho! this weekend sees me field (for the first time) a full 3k list... After having read alot of the forum stuff here I thought I'd post the list just to see what you guys think:

(My opponent is playing 3k Empire - an army I have used for many years)

Here goes:

Lords
Vampire Lord @ 380 pts.
Lvl 3, Nightmare, The Balefire Spike, Nightshroud, Red Fury, Infinite Hatred

Heroes
Vampire @ 225 pts.
Battle Standard Bearer, The Flag of Blood Keep, Walking Death

Vampire @ 115 pts.
Black Periapt

Necromancer @ 80 pts.
Dispell Scroll

Necromancer @ 80 pts.
Dispell Scroll

Necromancer @ 80 pts.
Dispell Scroll

Core
30 Skeletons @ 260 pts.
Full Command

30 Skeletons @ 260 pts.
Full Command

10 Ghouls @ 80 pts.

10 Ghouls @ 80 pts.

10 Ghouls @ 80 pts.

Special
30 Graveguard @ 415 pts.
Full Command, War Banner

30 Graveguard @ 390 pts.
Full Command

5 Black Knights @ 120 pts.

5 Black Knights @ 120 pts.

3 Fell Bats @ 60 pts.

Rare
Vargulf @ 175 pts.

Total: 3000 pts.
PD = 10 (+ Periapt?)
DD = 9 + 3 Dispell Scrolls (+ Periapt?)

Notes
The mounted general will be place in the Graveguard unit with the Warbanner, as will the BS Bearer. The other vampire will be placed in one of the skeleton units, probably deployed some way from the main Graveguard populated force. The vargulf will take a flank, possibly with some black knights. The necros are moveable - but will prob start out in ghoul/skele units. All three of them will take IoN, i think...

This is the battle plan, and i know what usually happens to battle plans...

...I'd love to know what you guys think, and of course I'll let you know how the battle goes

Thanks,

Zaggo

 

[TMS]

While I have zero practical experience when it comes to games over 2250 points, I still believe that I have some advice that might be of value to you.

Firstly, all of your vampire characters seem to have some form of deathwish about them. Your lord, for instance, has a measly 5+ armour save and nothing else to protect him. And your other vampires doesn't even have any armour value at all! This is 3000 points you know, you can afford to splurge on the characters a bit more, heheh. Simply giving all of your vampires the dread knight bloodline power should help them a great deal. Also, I would suggest investing in a ward save for your lord, perhaps also switch out his lance for the blood drinker sword, it works great in a unit of grave guard.

The villains responsible for sucking up all of your points seems to be the two massive units of grave guard. I would actually suggest that you drop one of them along with one of the small ghoul units. This should give you enough points to boost the rest of your otherwise quite basic army. I would also consider switching out the vampire battle standard bearer for a wight king and then give him the Drakenhof banner, that will surely provide him, the unit and your lord the protection that they will need! Couple this with the lord's blood drinker sword and it should become somewhat of an immovable object, heheh.

I would put your two small units of black knights into a single larger one. You need a hammer in games of this size and a 10-man unit of black knights should fit the bill perfectly. Get the enemy caught on your grave guard sponge, then send these bad boys in to get them!

Finally, I would drop one of your dispel scrolls and then have the two remaining ones go on the same necromancer. I would then suggest that you give the other necromancers a pair of power stones each and take the danse macabre spell with them. With their power stones they should be able to force that spell through when you need it the most.

There, I'll stop myself here. I hope I'm not imposing myself too much on this list of yours, heheh. You said that you've had some good experience with this type of army at lower levels so I can't really say that it's flat out bad, though I believe that it has some obvious flaws. Let us know how the battle goes, regardless of the list that you'll use!

 

[Zaggo]

thanks for the feed back...

i can't really claim to have much experience, although the VC list at 1k and 2k has gone well to date - i've only really expanded on what works to boost the army to 3k... i know from playing other armies that this doesn't always work...

i'm kinda loathed to change the list at this late stage (the gaming being tomorrow) but i'll def. take what you say on board and coupled with the experience i hope to get, make a stronger list for next time: and so on (i never think loosing is a bad thing - at least at this stage)

thanks for the feed back - i'll let you know how it goes...

 

[Skorne]

I am interested in seeing how your vampires fare in particular, with little in the way of protection for them.

 

[Zaggo]

So... the morning after.

On the advice given here I did infact change the list before I played, I opted for:

Lord
Vampire Lord @ 395 pts.
Lvl 3 Wizard, Dread Knight, Red Fury, Infiinite Hatred, Blood Drinker

Heroes
Wight King @ 225 pts.
Battle Standard Bearer, Drakenhof Banner

Vampire @ 100 pts.

...this clocked in at 720 points, neatly replacing the similiar characters in the previous list.

After due thought and consideration I thought this looked much better than the first attempt - so thanks for the adivce!

Alas, I did still loose the game, but only by 70 VP. On balance I am very happy with this and it was one of the funnest games I've played recently.

I played an experienced player with a good (magic heavy list), so am pleased not to have been routed!

I feel that the Grave Guard unit with the BS and General in was possibly over kill; it housed over 1k points and was totally intact by the end of the battle... My opponent never knew about the Drakenhof Banner! The unit itself ate 10 Handgunner, 30 Greatswords and 30 Swordmen, which was nice!!

The greater survivability of the General was much appreciated. The lone (vanilla) Vampire also did quite well at the head of a skeleton unit, untill she finally sucame to a Cleansing Flare spell, but only after killing 25 Spearmen (with the aid of her unit) and then breaking out to hunt a Hellblaster crew.

I shall disist in the rambling at this point, survice to say that it was a hugely entertaining game, made all the more fun by the pointers given above...

I shall post a refreshed list after due consideration.

Thanks...

 

[TMS]

It does indeed sound like the grave guard unit was a bit overkill. I wouldn't really know, since I've never fielded such a monstrosity myself, heheh.

I'm glad to hear that it was an enjoyable game and I'll be looking forward to your next list.

 

[Aegis]

Un-kill able monstrosities tend to make for good victory point denial. From the block of swordsman and greatswords, they didn't completely make their points back, but losing the greatswords probably put a nice chink in his opponents plan. So all in all, I'd call it mission accomplished. I am however confused as to how playing magic heavy empire your Grave Guard weren't subjected to multiple <insert painful blistering fire spell of your choice here> over and over and over again over the course of the game. unless his magic phase was less than stellar of course. Anyone like me have trouble getiing a &^*@$&# invocation to go off on a 3? >.<

 

[Zaggo]

Yeah - his magic was TERRIBLE... at least his offensive magic was - it picked up slightly at the end, but not much. However his defensive magic was much better. I got off two raise dead spells early on, and then nothing really untill a couple of IoN late game.

As you can see I fielded two large GG units. The one housing a lone vampire was totally destroyed... the other - with Gen. and BS. was totally unscathed - proving the importance of the uber undead!!

 

[Lordofundead]

most lists only have one unit of grave guard 20 max with the banner of barrows, and the bsb vampire goes in there with the drakenhof banner. That unit would be almost unstopable. I think you have too many necromancers, i don't see any corpse carts or any dire wolves or anything etherial.

 

[Aegis]

He dropped his necros and changed his characters in his 4th post. As for the carts/wraiths depending on who he plays often they might not be worth taking. I know personally around here a unit of wraiths has the survivability of a pot roast in a cage full of starved wolves. = / Shame too, i based my VC on enslaved Tomb Kings troops. (my wraith unit is a tomb king on foot with that huge glaive as a banshee and casket guards for wraiths.)

 

[Zaggo]

lol - aegis...

btw, that sounds like a nice theme... i love themed armies, mine is based on my stirland empire force - which i've played with for years... except this time it's back from the dead

 

[Aegis]

Now if only i could stop playing games with it and paint it all..... :devil:

 

[Zaggo]

lol - i'm the other way around. I can paint VC's really quickly; I undercoat white and then paint almost exclusively with washes (the notable exception to this is my characters). This gives a ghostly, ethereal look.

Conversally my stirland force is STILL not painted... it's taking ages