4th Vargheist vs 2nd spirit host

[estwheadn]

Hey guys I'm about to play a game at 2500 pts. I have a unit of 4 vargheists and a spirit host. I'm considering taking out a vargheist for a 2nd spirit host. Thoughts?

 

[owain_b]

Do you know what army you'll be facing?

Think it would depend what other units you have really and how much chaff you have?

I like to take 2 spirit hosts, but if you are up against doc then I wouldn't take any.

 

[estwheadn]

id like my list to be taac but i will be against orcs

 

[The Sun King]

An extra Spirit Host is WAY better than a fourth Vargheist. Especially against OnG as you can kill fanatics harmlessly with Spirit Hosts.

 

[owain_b]

Yeah totally agree with sunny generally speaking and for a all comers list go with the second host. And even against doc and woodelves they are still good for chaff and target saturation

 

[estwheadn]

The game is in a couple hours and I decided to go with both :tongue:

I kept the the 4th vargheist and I dropped the champion upgrade from my crypt horrors and gave my black knights lichebone pennant instead of banner of the barrows. That makes my black knights a bit of a better bus for my VL but a bit less hitty.

Here's the list and I'll do my best to post a battle report in the battle reports section later


+++ 2500pt Vampire Counts - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.1. Roster (Standard)) +++

Selections:

Vampire Counts - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.1. (Standard) Selections:

+ Lords + (551pts)

* Vampire Lord (551pts)
(The Hunger, Undead, Vampiric)
Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Lore of the Vampires, Quickblood (*), Red Fury (*), Summon Creatures of the Night (*), The General of Undeath (*), Wizard Level 4
* Hellsteed
Hellsteed (Fly, Swiftstride, Undead)
* Magic Items
AB - Book of Arkhan, BRB - Charmed Shield, BRB - Talisman of Preservation, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard


+ Heroes + (159pts)

* Wight King (159pts)
(Killing Blow, Undead)
Lance, Shield
* Magic Items
AB - Nightshroud, BRB - Ironcurse Icon
* Skeletal Steed
Barding, Skeletal Steed (Spectral Steeds, Swiftstride, Undead)


+ Core + (628pts)

* Dire Wolves (50pts)
(Slavering Charge, Swiftstride, Undead, Vanguard (FAQ'ed))
Champion, 5x Dire Wolf


* Dire Wolves (40pts)
(Slavering Charge, Swiftstride, Undead, Vanguard (FAQ'ed))
5x Dire Wolf


* Dire Wolves (40pts)
(Slavering Charge, Swiftstride, Undead, Vanguard (FAQ'ed))
5x Dire Wolf


* Skeleton Warriors (335pts)
(Undead)
Champion, 60x Skeleton Warrior
* Standard Bearer
BRB - Banner of Swiftness


* Zombies (163pts)
(Always Strikes Last, The Newly Dead, Undead)
Musician, Standard Bearer, 51x Zombie


+ Special + (937pts)

* Black Knights (285pts)
(Killing Blow, Undead)
* 10x Black Knight
10x Barding, 10x Lances
* Standard Bearer
BRB - Lichebone Pennant
* Steed
Skeletal Steed (Spectral Steeds, Swiftstride, Undead)


* Crypt Horrors (304pts)
(Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration (5+), Stomp, Undead)
8x Crypt Horror


* Fell Bats (32pts)
(Fly, Swiftstride, Undead)
2x Fell Bat


* Fell Bats (32pts)
(Fly, Swiftstride, Undead)
2x Fell Bat


* Spirit Host (45pts)
(Ethereal, Skirmishers (FAQ'ed), Undead)
Spirt Host


* Spirit Host (45pts)
(Ethereal, Skirmishers (FAQ'ed), Undead)
Spirt Host


* Vargheists (194pts)
(Fly, Frenzy, Stomp, Swiftstride, Undead, Vampiric)
Champion, 4x Vargheist


+ Rare + (225pts)

* Terrorgheist (225pts)
(Death Shriek, Fly, Large Target, Regeneration (6+), Terror, Thunderstomp, Undead)


Created with BattleScribe

wish me luck!

 

[Nicreap]

I'm interested to know how it goes, but just a note, you shouldn't post any point values in this site, doing so puts it at risk of being shut down by gw for copyright infringement.

 

[estwheadn]

Battle rep posted here

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

An extra Spirit Host is WAY better than a fourth Vargheist. Especially against OnG as you can kill fanatics harmlessly with Spirit Hosts.

Absolutely, unequivocally, disagree.

Three vargheists are anemic. It's just a little too easy to knock them down to the point where they get stuck on warmachines, or get ground out against things a unit of 4 will chew through in a round. Like wildriders the vargs are all about the alpha-strike, hitting units where they're vulnerable and shredding them to pieces before they can do any appreciable damage back.

A spirit host is just chaff. Amazing chaff, but still just chaff. They won't earn you any points, as they can't actually kill much of anything. Not to mention that against trueflight arrows they're dead points. Against a WoC or demon army they're just slower direwolves. Against anything with RnF they're little more than an annoyance. Moreover, their mobility is drastically hampered the moment they step outside of the general's leadership bubble.

Perhaps it would look different to someone running a different build, but quite honestly the things a spirit host is great against I just don't really care about. A vampire lord can chew through a monster or monstercav unit in a single round, two if they're lucky. Anything a spirit host can tack down a terrorgheist can take off in a scream or two.

Things we don't have many good answers to? Warmachines. Fast-moving cavalry units. Bunkered light councils. Things that Vargheists excel at tearing up.

I would take a fourth vargheist any day of the week over a spirit host. In fact...I do just that: two units of four vargheists, zero spirit hosts. I'd take spirit hosts if I had room...but I don't, so I don't, and I haven't looked back.

Vargheists FTW.

 

[Asmodeus]

I have to disagree with you Pirate.
Spirit host against O&G is not chaff, and is very usefull. O&G have - manglers, fanatics, chariots, monstrous infantry(trolls). Lots of fast threats to our "bus" dependant army. And lots of threats that will be at the mercy of any etheral.

Against O&G - spirit hosts will not be simple chaff. They can deal with mentioned threats and survive. Mind, that O&G dont have magical attacks, so as long as spirit host will avoid big unit, characters or magic is controlled it should be quite save.

Things we don't have many good answers to? Warmachines. Fast-moving cavalry units. Bunkered light councils. Things that Vargheists excel at tearing up.

He have 3 units of direwolves, 2 units of fellbats, pack of vargheists....i think that he definitely know what to do with warmachines O&G are not light wizards so i think, that light concil is not problem here. And wolf riders should stay away from spirit host - unless they are properly ranked.
My suggestion is that thouse skellies should be replaced by zombies and more direwolfes. You have few killing elements - BK+blender, CH, Terror. More blocking power and more chaff.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I have to disagree with you Pirate.
Spirit host against O&G is not chaff, and is very usefull. O&G have - manglers, fanatics, chariots, monstrous infantry(trolls). Lots of fast threats to our "bus" dependant army. And lots of threats that will be at the mercy of any etheral.

Against O&G - spirit hosts will not be simple chaff. They can deal with mentioned threats and survive. Mind, that O&G dont have magical attacks, so as long as spirit host will avoid big unit, characters or magic is controlled it should be quite save.

He have 3 units of direwolves, 2 units of fellbats, pack of vargheists....i think that he definitely know what to do with warmachines O&G are not light wizards so i think, that light concil is not problem here. And wolf riders should stay away from spirit host - unless they are properly ranked.
My suggestion is that thouse skellies should be replaced by zombies and more direwolfes. You have few killing elements - BK+blender, CH, Terror. More blocking power and more chaff.

Fellbats aren't reliable at killing warmachines. Boltthrowers have ASF attacks, dwarf warmachines are S/T4, Bret trebs have 4 crew. Even direwolves struggle if they don't roll well on their charge roll. They might hold them up for a while but they're not actually all that likely to earn you the points.

Vargheists, by comparison, SHRED warmachines. They hit one, tear it apart, overrun into the second, tear THAT apart, and then are free to charge something else on your turn. Issue is that they bleed wounds along the way, and if you don't start off with enough you'll find that they can only make it through so many units before they go down. That's why three isn't enough.

Also unless you're running a summoning engine, skellies are better core than zombies. Champions make them so much more useful, 5+6++ makes them more durable, as does WS2 hitting most things on 4+. Zombies are wicked overpriced at 3pts a piece if you're not using Invocation to grow them by at least 50%.


As for spirit hosts, yeah they're great. However they're very unlikely to actually earn you points, just hold up your opponent's points. A fourth vargheist will help that unit rip through more things, which is a higher priority as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Antipodean]

Once you've had a spirit host hold up a steam tank all game you never go back. Both Varhgeists are spirit hosts are useful for vastly different reasons. I'll admit my dire wolves have just as often let me down as succeed when they warmachine hunt - which is why I now either send multiple units or accompany them with bigger hitters like varhgeists.

 

[Asmodeus]

Hmm - we are discussing universal, tournament army or we discussing facing O&G?

Fellbats aren't reliable at killing warmachines

I did not mention about killing them. As long as they are in combat - they will not shoot and your cheap fellbats will pay off. Orcs dont have ASF. Orc warmachines are usually WS 2 gobbos with poor ld so fear will kick in as most players deploys their warmachines close to the table edge and usually far from each other - so being in general bubble is quite unlikely). Maybe with bully they will be some problem to the fellbats but you dont have to kill warmachine to make it useless - as long as it will be in combat, it wont shoot. The same applies to other races warmachines - yes, elves have ASF and dwarfs have T4. Elfes have only 2 attacks and dwarfs have 3 and S is 3 - so it is more like 50/50 to at least glue the warmashine for turn or two.

Skellies vs zombies - no comment about what is best. IMO in his rooster he needs more blocking power, not big point denial. More direwolfes cause most competitive orc roosters have big savage orc deathstar that is easy to redirect cause of their frenzy.

However they're very unlikely to actually earn you points, just hold up your opponent's points

Sometimes you must have units that will prevent enemy units earning point on you. Picking only units that should earn points leads to situation, that you have nice selection of killers, that will be unable to counter some silly but specialized threats.