5000pt UL army advice appreciated

[DarkRane]

Been reading the posts and guides here for awhile but this is my first post.
Have a couple of 5000pt WH40k armies, but I am new to WHF and would appriciate any advice / critiques of my prospective army.

Undead Legions army list

Lords
Strigori Ghoul King w/ Terrorgheist – curse of the revenant, aura of dark majesty, skabscath, dragonbane gem: 645pt
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night: xxxpt
Vampire Lady (Lord) – level 2 wizard, red fury, quickblood, heavy armour, helm of discord, enchanted shield, ogre blade: 416pt

Heroes
Necromancer – level 2 wizard, dispel scroll, book of arkhan: 150pt
Necromancer – level 2 wizard, shielding scroll, the cursed book: 150pt
Necromancer – level 2 wizard, rod of flaming death, master of the dead: 160pt
Wight King – nightshroud, seed of rebirth, battle standard: 164pt
Cairn Wraith: xxpt (4x)
Liche Priest – level 2 wizard, neferras scrolls of mighty incantations: 155pt
Liche Priest – level 2 wizard, enkhils kanopi: 130pt

Core
Zombies (20) – musician, standard bearer: 70pt (4x)
Skeleton Warriors (57) – spears, champion, musician, standard bearer, screaming banner: 340pt
Dire Wolves (6) – doom wolf: 58pt (5x)
Skeleton Horse Archers (10) – musician, standard bearer, master of scouts: 170 (2x)

Special
Corpse Cart – balefire: 105pt (2x)
Hexwraiths (10): 300pt
Vargheists (3): 138pt

Rare
Mortis Engine – blasphemous tome: 240pt

Total: 4998pt

the plan is to stick a Cairn Wraith with each zombie group and have each one with either a Necro or Liche. The WK, MotD necro, and VL will be in the Skeles. All necros, and vamps will be using IoN to boost up the the zombies to unholy numbers.... hopefully :tongue:

not sure if two carts are a good idea, or if maybe I should swap for a banshee and stick her in my skele block too

Haven't really purchased too many of the models yet so still pretty flexible as to what I actually settle on. Only Mannfred is a must.. already have the model and a guy I know is assembling and pro painting it for me

Like I said any and all advice is welcome... and I might listen to it too :tongue:

 

[Cela Shyish]

I don't recommebd so many wizards, the spell variety is nice, but remember you get roughly the same number of dice regardless, so you'll quickly find most of them will just be wasted points. Also loading them one into each unit is bad , as they are nearly unprotected, so your opponent can single them out in melee for some easy victory points and your core's job is basically to die so having one as a cheap bunker is fine but so many means they have 2 conflicting roles, one is to tie up enemy units (which would get your wizards killed) the other is to bunker the wizards and hence avoid combat, leaving your opther units defenceless.

I would drop a lot of characters to make way for a unit of black knights or grave guard and to bump those vargheists up to 6. Your army really lacks punch and if you're going to use a mortis engine, I recommend 2 as a 5+ regen is far more reliable than a 6+. Also drop the dire wolves down to 5 dog units with no doom wolf. In such small numbers they'll only be redirectors and warmachine hunters so its a waste of points, the zombies should drop the musicians, as unless they're within general's leadership they'll never pass a reform and if you're smart with wheeling you shouldn't need to use it enough to be worth it anyway. I definitely recommend trying to fit more aggressive units into your rare and special as opposed to so many wizards as you simply don't have the bodies on the ground that do any real damage barring your three lords.

 

[DarkRane]

Hmmm think I may still be having a hard time wrapping my head around how different the magic vs psychic is for WHF and WH40k lol

Guess I could probably drop the liches and have two 'attack' zombie groups and two bunkers. Which means I could also drop the bunker wraiths.

Probably also will try to go with BKs vs GG since I still want to amass zombies. BKs could probably maneuver around the big blocks easier should I need to.

I will also rework the core units but since the points won't really change I'm going to work on figuring out the rest first.

Oh and guess I really don't need the extra wiz level on the VL

 

[DarkRane]

Ok think I may have figured it out after much sweat, blood, and tears... well maybe no sweat or tears but...

Anyways here it is, let me know if I messed it up or not lol :tongue:

Undead Legions army list

Lords

Strigori Ghoul King w/ Terrorgheist – curse of the revenant, aura of dark majesty, skabscath, dragonbane gem: 645pt

Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night: xxxpt

Vampire Lady (Lord) – red fury, quickblood, heavy armour, helm of discord, enchanted shield, ogre blade: 381pt

Master Necromancer – the book of arkhan, ruby ring of ruin, master of the dead: 235pt

Heroes

Vampire – dark acolyte, summon creatures of the night, dispel scroll, dragonhelm, heavy armor, shield: 181pt

Wight King – nightshroud, seed of rebirth, great weapon, battle standard: 169pt

Cairn Wraith: xxpt

Core

Zombies (20) – musician, standard bearer: 70pt (4x)

Skeleton Warriors (44) – spears, champion, musician, standard bearer, lichebone pennant: 265pt

Dire Wolves (5) – 40pt (4x)

Dire Wolves (15) – doom wolf: 130pt (2x)

Skeleton Horse Archers (8) – musician, standard bearer, master of scouts: 142 (2x)

Special

Corpse Cart – balefire: 105pt (2x)

Grave Guard (27) – Seneschal, musician, standard bearer, banner of the barrows, great weapons: 404pt

Hexwraiths (10): 300pt

Vargheists (6): 276pt

Rare

Mortis Engine – blasphemous tome: 240pt


Again hoping to raise lots of zombies, so all vamps and the necro will be using IoN, the vamp and MotD necro will go with the skeles, and the VL, wraith, and WK will be with the GG.

Really wish bats were core instead of special... I would actually use them then :tongue:

 

[Cela Shyish]

I recommend dropping helm of discord (too unreliable) and ruby ring of ruin (d6 S4 is just not enough to warrant the points or power dice) and give the vampire lady a 4+ ward from talisman of preservation. I wouldn't recommend the wraith going with grave guard, they pack about as much punch so you're spending extra points for no real gain, I'd say drop the wraith and boost the grave guard numbers, with great weapons they are surprisingly fragile against combat units and the extra bodies really help. Mortis Engines work best in pairs as well, or when supporting crypt horrors otherwise the 6+ regen isn't really worth it. I'd say either trade it for a basic terrogheist or if you really want a mortis engine, try to skim some points from your characters for a second one for the 5+ regen bubble. Otherwise I'd say its looking good so far probably split the hexies into 2 units of 5 for flexibility, easier movement and to minise damage from a decent magic missile.

 

[DarkRane]

Oh poo... misread the ring, thought it did 2d6 :tongue:
The wraith was so I could charge out and tie up stuff the GG didn't want to deal with, but I guess with all the zombies and wolves thats really not needed
Wanted the mortis mainly so I could 1-2 dice IoN the regen and dmg were just bonus

 

[Cela Shyish]

Oh if the engine is for the tome then that should be ok, its kinda a lot of points for just that though XP But I suppose its cheaper than paying for higher level wizards. Although do remember that it is very risky to have that tome. And if you really wanted something that packed a lot more hits than the ruby ring, if you can free up some points the rod of flaming death can be worth it, the initial d6 hits is poor, but the fact every model in the unit takes an additional hit if they move can really cripple your opponent's movement or their unit. Oh but it is worth noting that unless you're using end times magic, all these bound spells will give you the same problem you had with the 50 wizards in the first list, too many spells, not enough dice

 

[DarkRane]

Oh but it is worth noting that unless you're using end times magic, all these bound spells will give you the same problem you had with the 50 wizards in the first list, too many spells, not enough dice :tongue:

And that is the sole reason I'm running Manny instead of Neferata... rerolling a WoM dice and +3 magic dice a turn, plus a chance to get a further additional 5 dice if he wounds alot, was too good to pass up for my build... oh and the double range summon it nice too

 

[Cela Shyish]

Don't forget there is an upper limit of 12 dice, no matter how many extra mannfred gives you you still probavly won't have enough XD although I recommend giving undeath a try since you brought it up, it can help a lot if you've got a plan for it.