8th edition Dark Elves

[Melle]

BG is capped at 20 now, and rarely played, beacause of the 8th. the most elite infantry in DE cant horde, wich is a big thing in 8th. they are also scarce, hence the 20man cap. why i think they wont be able to take multiple of the unit, but without a cap on numbers


cost will be raised throughout the army, bringing them close to high elves costs

black amulet has been around for ages(sad times in 5th when everyone was allowed having it) so i beat that one stays

hoping for whip of agony, and lifetaker to stay unchanged, and cloak of hag graef.
also banner of murder at cheap cost would be nice kept, rest i dont care about


ability to roll 12 dice i also thik will be gone, replaced by lore attributeark magic: for each succsessful casting of a spell(even if dispelled) the sorcerer regains 1 PD or something like that.
they will also have 2 signature spells, like HE. power of darkness beeing 1

 

[Zephyr]

I seriously hope Executioners become viable to wield, they're not bad at all just a bit meh. I have a Har Ganeth themed army. With the rumors of Executioners and Black Guard becoming a plastic dual kit I really hope they look different enough! I love the look of Executioners and wouldn't want them changed a lot.
I take it CoK will be left alone, I swear I have whole hordes of them from throughout all editions. From the skinny lizards to fat lizards, from godzillah-faces to the pretty cool ones we have now.

I think we can expect cost raises and deletion of a lot of magic items. Pretty much like any army book so far. I really hope we get new Dark Rider models, those models are ancient. Some shiny new Witch Elves would be nice too...or how about a new Altar of Khaine? Yummy.

I'm looking forward to a new book myself, I'm sick of the whining about my DE being OP. Around the time I finish my HE force I got my Druchii waiting for me.

 

[Melle]

lizzardmen cold ones get 2attacks, i just saw
druchii might have that too then

 

[Corien Sumatris]

That would make total sense as Cold Ones are 4,000lb War Beasts! and 1 4S attack is pretty garbage for what their fluff is suppose to be.

 

[Seneschal]

They need an infantry unit that can dish out damage. I remember my dark elves fondly but a group of delves with high strength (and no ASL) would have made the difference. Black Guard didn't cut it and so everyone and their brother ran mindrazor.
Most lists eventually evolved into the evasion style armies we see today and people hate facing off against those.

The model cap on BG should be lifted when you look at all the High Elf units that are supposedly small in number story-wise, it just makes sense.

I say make Execs str 4 base and give their weapons (called "draichs") +1 str, swing in initiative.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

So give Exos halberds? I guess that would make sense but S5 elves swinging at init what 5 or 6? I mean you're starting to look at a crazy ridiculous good unit, I mean they would have to be minimum 18 to 22 points a model. They get to reroll hits, whch they would be atleast WS 5, They get S 5, And init order? yeah that'd be real good especially for the Delves.

 

[Swaiper]

Crazy good unit? like SMs you mean which costs 6.5 slaves . Sure they dont have hatred but they get to strike in 3 ranks instead AND they have 2 attacks...

 

[Melle]

only first rank gets the 2 attacks and they lost their rerolls. i thought SM was considered one of the worst units in HE now, not bad but the others are better. way better

 

[Swaiper]

Yeah I know but I meant that they are still better than executioners with str 5, 1 attack and rerolls first round of combat which Corien said would cost 22 pts . Id say 15 pts is max for an elite elf unit ^^

 

[Melle]

well, KB is quite handy. ill settle for 50 pts banner on them. so they can get asf and strike in I order instead. taken they get to keep that banner. ..

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Ok Ok, 22 may be a bit much, still going with 18 though. They're going to have the same S and same I as the swordmasters but without ASL, Meaning you have the ability to make them ASF, and they have hatred. I dunno, I'm not a game designer by any means. I just think that they would be a 1+ unit if they were only 15pts. Then they're right back to the cookie cutter, tournament winning army that they are now!

 

[Seneschal]

Dark Elves need an infantry unit that can deal damage, they are the offensive elf army yet they were given Pendant of Khaleth while High Elves were given Talisman of Loec. I could give more examples of things like this but I can imagine you fine people are probably tired of my complaining ad nauseum.
Take away Banner of Hag Graef and there is no problem with my suggestion. Even if you kept it, would it be so bad? Look at the totally destructive forces other armies have been given recently. Execs are still T3 with a 5+. Sure, add the Cauldron shield on them and you've got a deathstar but what army doesn't have one?
Monstrous cav is still the dominant force for the time being and they will still laugh at KB execs.
The Dagger will be gone in the new book and so will the PoK I think, so why not let execs have a time to shine?
Of course, this is jsut a suggestion I came up with on the fly. If I took the time and made a refined DE list, it might be different.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

I guess, Thy are doing a lot of just making armies better. I guess I'm just bitter about the vamps, and I compare other armies to them. Like I said I am no game designer, In fact I would probably be real bad at it. I'm to mathematical thus I would end up making every army relatively the same. I would give each stat a certain point cost and that would be where the point costs came from.

Right now I'm looking at Grave Guard, and comparing executioners to them. GG have Crap WS, Crap Init, Give them ASF and they will still be striking last. They need magic to allow them to reroll hits, so any smart man won't let you get VanHals off on them. The only thing that they have on Executioners is the +1T, but they also have -3WS (Atleast), -3I (Atleast), and no hatred. So +1 point for +1 stat doesn't seem ridiculous.

 

[Seneschal]

Don't forget they are unbreakable, cause fear, can be healed and the characters that can support them are much nastier. Things need to be looked at in the context of the army they represent in addition to what else is out there.

 

[The Sun King]

Sen said it, you cannot really compare statlines out of context.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

True, but they also have a BSB supporting them, Steadfast matters to them, They don't have to be within 12 inches of the general to march. If the general dies then they don't fall apart. Yeah a combat lord is good, but spending 1,000 points on a unit that has a beast and a whole bunch of ASL S6 bro's isn't as good as an okay lord and a whole bunch of I5/I6 S5 WS5 bro's

If vamps could march outside of the IP bubble

OR

Didn't crumble when the general died

OR

If their BSB was better

OR

Vampiric models didn't crumble from combat res

Then I would be happy with seeing Exe's being 12-15 points a model. I'm not looking for all of these, just one would be fine. I mean Seeing how the books will be written then they will probable have the Exe's be aroung 12-15, and they'll probably end up with a great weapon unit too for around the same cost.

 

[Melle]

are you confusing exes with black guard?
exes have great weapons ' the draich'

black guards have halberds and 2 attacks, infinite hatred ( elite warrior) with str 4 base i think

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Oh I might be! I haven't read the DE book in quite a while.

 

[Melle]

its a well known fact that the DE book is undercosted, part of why they are so good.


executioners
ws 5 S4 I5 Ld8
great weapon
khainite(stubborn if cauldron within 12'')
killing blow
cost: one pts less than black guard

black guard
ws5 S3 I6 A2 Ld9
halberd
max 20 in unit
immune to psych
warrior elite (always reroll to hit)
stubborn
cost: skaven lucky number

 

[Shareya]

I can not wait for the new lore O_O

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Exos cost the same as GG! what the shit! They do the same thing as GG except a whole lot better!

 

[Melle]

well, gg pay for fear and unbreakable too.

bottom line, comparing old ass book with a recently update one, goes wrong pointswise and even 2 new books is hard to compare points between them for similar units.
army wide special rules and internal balance is a huge factor

i didnt mention hatred above btw, since all DE has that.

 

[Zephyr]

Exos cost the same as GG! what the shit! They do the same thing as GG except a whole lot better!

Compared with most of the new army books lots will probably be brought in line. Thing is when comparing, you need to keep in mind GG can be brought back to life whereas Execs who die will stay quite dead. It might not seem fair but my guess is that's why they are priced equally...for now. DE are ridiculously cheap and have tons of scary magic items. Looking at my HE I think I can see where this is going; price hikes(both points and kits LOL and disappearing items).

For now I'm rather happy with the power balance between the new books (except for TK).

 

[The Sun King]

But even TK can be competetive even though they have a hard learning curve.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Oh yeah, I've lost to Tomb Kings a few times! Although I am a terrible example, I'm not verry good at this whole game quite yet. I was a 40K guru but then the new book came out and it's all about fliers and it may be fun but it's not the same.