(a) Great Debate: Latin vs. Greek
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*giggles*
Oh, how mistaken you are, saying that I have not read enough Latin.
You see, this speech you mention. I've read it. I've translated it. In fact, I was even examined on it - I studied it as a set text. Needless to say, I almost got full marks. I'm aware of Cicero's rhetorical power.
Also, I'd just like to say that that was not his most famous speech - that honour belongs to his disassembling of the Catiline conspiracy. Cicero was the first consul to not have come from a noble background. He was one of histories greatest men. However, that does not make the language great (on a side note, I do acknowledge Latin's greatness. However, Greek is simply better.)
But I think you misunderstand variatio. Let me give you some examples.
Indirect statements: In Latin, there is one way of saying them. In Greek, four.
'When' clauses: In Latin, it depends on the situation, however in any given situation there is only one that you should use and was used. In Greek: three, all of them viable at any time.
Result Clauses: In Latin, one. In Greek, three.
Articles: In Latin... oh wait was that none? Although Latin survived pretty well without them, they are only a boon to Greek.
This is what variatio is. Latin authors had to make do with synonyms, Greek ones with great variance of structure.
This is not a question of Language, but of society. The greeks, as a whole (with some notable exceptions) were unwarlike, and more importantly, ununified, fighting most of their battles with each other. Greece was not, for the most part, a single nation. There was a sort of enveloping definition, but for the most part seperate. The best allegory I can conjure is that it is like the States of America without the American Government.
Regardless, your point is utterly meaningless. The Romans were a relatively war-like people. The Greeks, for the most part, were not. This has nothing to do with language.
Oh, how mistaken you are, saying that I have not read enough Latin.
You see, this speech you mention. I've read it. I've translated it. In fact, I was even examined on it - I studied it as a set text. Needless to say, I almost got full marks. I'm aware of Cicero's rhetorical power.
Also, I'd just like to say that that was not his most famous speech - that honour belongs to his disassembling of the Catiline conspiracy. Cicero was the first consul to not have come from a noble background. He was one of histories greatest men. However, that does not make the language great (on a side note, I do acknowledge Latin's greatness. However, Greek is simply better.)
But I think you misunderstand variatio. Let me give you some examples.
Indirect statements: In Latin, there is one way of saying them. In Greek, four.
'When' clauses: In Latin, it depends on the situation, however in any given situation there is only one that you should use and was used. In Greek: three, all of them viable at any time.
Result Clauses: In Latin, one. In Greek, three.
Articles: In Latin... oh wait was that none? Although Latin survived pretty well without them, they are only a boon to Greek.
This is what variatio is. Latin authors had to make do with synonyms, Greek ones with great variance of structure.
Count Darvaleth said:
This is not a question of Language, but of society. The greeks, as a whole (with some notable exceptions) were unwarlike, and more importantly, ununified, fighting most of their battles with each other. Greece was not, for the most part, a single nation. There was a sort of enveloping definition, but for the most part seperate. The best allegory I can conjure is that it is like the States of America without the American Government.
Regardless, your point is utterly meaningless. The Romans were a relatively war-like people. The Greeks, for the most part, were not. This has nothing to do with language.
Brilliant markside trap laid by Sanai, but two versus one isn't appropriate. I'm putting the call out for a team member for Latin.
Questioner
Wight King
Questioner said:
Would you accept this compromise, my adversary Harland? I fear we shall be here until the End Times otherwise. And united, Greek and Latin can destroy all other languages.
What say you?
I agree that Greek and Latin are superior to all other languages.
Except English.
Although I will allow this debate to be discontinued, I'm not going to accept the compromise. Now that we have seen each other's arguments, we can simply agree to disagree on this.
Remember, if you ever feel like a good argument, I'll be here.
Greek is the best.
Except English.
Although I will allow this debate to be discontinued, I'm not going to accept the compromise. Now that we have seen each other's arguments, we can simply agree to disagree on this.
Remember, if you ever feel like a good argument, I'll be here.
Greek is the best.
Although we may not have dissuaded Darvy from his folly, if this were an official debating competition (yep, they exist. And are very popular in British schools), we would have one.
Thus.
Thus.
Ding ding
I think Darvy came off worse in round one but I think for a two on one situation, he held his own admirably.
And special thanks to Sanai for that update while I was away
I think Darvy came off worse in round one but I think for a two on one situation, he held his own admirably.
And special thanks to Sanai for that update while I was away
Yes that's exactly what Sanai thought I'm sure. Nothing perverted went through Sanai's mind when he saw that. No sirey
Bloody? Yes. Beaten? Never!
In a two-on-one situation, however, I had to realise that the chips were up (or down, whichever).
The official outcome: Latin and Greek are the best languages.
[mod] Debate closed! [/mod]
In a two-on-one situation, however, I had to realise that the chips were up (or down, whichever).
The official outcome: Latin and Greek are the best languages.
[mod] Debate closed! [/mod]
Just read the full thing....poor Darvy got pounced on from both ends. T'was unfair I tell ya!
Good reading, though if I am fully honest Chas_Born's updates were the best part of it
Good reading, though if I am fully honest Chas_Born's updates were the best part of it
He uses the big modbanner, he closes the thread, he hopes the whole thing will slowly slip down the list...
... and then DoN goes and cheats the system. Naughty DoN!
... and then DoN goes and cheats the system. Naughty DoN!
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