Abhorash: Just VC fanboy character!

[Aren]

VonC are iconic though, they are the traditional Dracula vampires. Blood dragons are also tied in with our favourite impaler, dragons and correct me if I'm wrong but Vlad used to be a part the knights of the dragon, even when his father was in power... I have never been a lahmian person myself....taking over the world by....economy?!?!!!! Yeah, plus they are very much a backstabbing lot, I prefer the honour bound vamps.....best though I like necrarch. The sheer magical power....next is a tie between VonC and BD, I like the aristocracy of the night but I also like my vampires crushing anything in their path...

Now, I better take this thread back on-topic. Abhorash killed a red dragon. In single combat (no steed) and possibly without a sword (not sure on that one) to kill a dragon you need insane strength (more than the usual 5) and really high weapon skill. Also crazy speed to avoid getting hit. What we have established though is that Abhorash was never big on magic items, so even if he is naked he is still not much worse than in full battle attire. So he has to have super special rules, he has to be better (much better) than tyrion in combat. So I say an ongoing red fury-for every wound done he gets 2 attacks and it carries on from those attacks. Too good? This is abhorash, vampires are possibly the best race in combat and he is the best of us, he has to be able to slaughter whole units in a turn (for about 850 pts though ) and have a special save against shooting, the likes of the one give by blood keep banner.

 

[Shareya]

Lahmians do more then just economy! They manipulate, cheat, have a LOT of mortal servants and can pull off quite some funky things.

I like them still mostly because they are among the few bloodlines with who you can interact as a mortal and not end up being hung upside down from a tree while being drained dry by casually chatting vamps >.>

Also pft, honor bound vamps my butt. The Von's backstab each other a LOT and everyone else they work with x) Lahmians vampire backstabbery desires are at least somewhat kept in check by their Queen's will.
Also I never quite understood where this theory about all Blood Dragons being beyond being asses/backstabbers. If anything most of them seem kinda lousy with only a few being bit like their grand daddy Abb.

...Damn really going offtopic now

 

[Aren]

Its all about the ideals though. Lahmians set out to backstab, vonC do it when it is convenient and Dragons do it when they have to (usually just challenging the person outright).

Exactly my point about lahmians. Where are they when the world is falling apart from chaos? That's right, hiding or maybe one or two on a coven throne. VonC are a mix between necrarch, dragon and lahmian, a well dons mix that is why they are popular. I like dragons but I also like beautiful vampires and magic. Ergo vonC. Plus, vonC are the aristocracy but lahmians are more like a really influential brothel.

 

[woodster17]

I'm often confused by Lahmian methods, even in the Nathan Long Ulrika books. It's always strikes me that they seem content with their lot. They're very good at manipulating and it seems to be the case that they have quite effectively subverted large swathes of Imperial cities under their thrall but live in fear of doing anything about it. In general, they seem quite happy with the status quo while at the same time enjoy bickering and angling among themselves for supremacy. At the same time, many Lahmians in The Empire at least seem to only be allowed to go about their business at the whims of Neferata, who could probably dispatch agents to crush them like a bug. The Time of Legends novel brought Neferata to life a little more but my problem with the Lahmians is that they don't ever seem to do much or even want to do much. They like a cushy life.

That's in contrast to the other major bloodlines- Von Carsteins have the ultimate grandiose ambition, Blood Dragons are attractive fluff wise because of their martial nature, Necrarchs have interesting necromantic connotations while Strigoi have the whole debased anguish going on. Lahmians... well they just are to be honest. Unless you like the whole seductress thing that is. I'd like to see more ambition on their part however. Neferata is Queen of the entire race of Vampires, yet it's left to (admittedly cool) foppish dandies and archetypal Vampires in the form of Von Carsteins to actively try and subjugate people.

 

[Shareya]

Lahmian's goal is world domination ( pretty much ) but not via just blunt warfare as in Neferata's mind the undead can never openly rule over the living.
In more then one book it has already been pointed out that the Lahmians are extremely active, constantly expanding their influence and more then once made sure the Empire ( and other mortal kingdoms) have been prepared to battle away certain Von Carstein threats, among others.

I mean Aren, going by what you said. When chaos threatens the empire then of course the Lahmians are not going to raise an army of corpses to battle it. They will instead make sure that the humans get their act together and actually combat it over arguing between themselves. And it's not like the Carstein would even send in their army's. They would exploit the situation to the fullest and then try to deal with the chaos forces x)
And naturally they do try to climb the power ladder and gladly step on each others toes when they can get away with it but it's still nothing compared to Carstein backstabbery x)

But of course, this is again a matter of taste. I personally adore how they operate, I have always been a fan of the ''masquerade'' theme they run with.

 

[Aren]

We have successfully managed to turn this thread into bickering between ourselves over bloodlines

Exactly, lahmian power is dependant on others, vonC is not. VonC are self sufficient but if there was no empire the lahmians would have no Power. They need humans and they need them alive but vonC don't, only 1 or 2 for blood. That is why when vonC take over the empire the lahmians will crumble.

 

[Shareya]

Lahmians are more then able to raise zombie armys, among other things when the situation demands but it is simply not needed.

And was there not a little Von Carstein leader who got destroyed because he needed mortal necromancers to keep his armys up?

 

[woodster17]

Yeah well he was a raving lunatic. It's not like he inherited Drakenhof because he was the most able for the job- simply because he was the most maniacal and brutal while Mannfred was off scouring the tombs of Nehekhara etc... while readying himself for the leadership of Sylvania.

It is made very clear in the Ulrika trilogy that the VonC's and Lahmians are pretty serious enemies. Presumably because the overt nature of the Von Carstein ambitions are the antithesis of the Lahmian aims. You're right though Sainna, it is personal preference. The masquerade isn't my cup of tea- I enjoy the Lahmian's least of all the bloodlines because they're not aggressive enough for my liking.

It's actually quite difficult to pigeon-hole Von Carstein's as the ultimate back stabbers because of their relative scarcity. The Lahmian's are pretty numerous- there are hundreds of them of various influence in the cities of the Old World. Von Carstein's are more limited demographically and while you can be a get of a Von Carstein that doesn't automatically give you the right to bear their name or even allow yourself to feel like you have a right to power.

What sources are you referring to Sainna? I'd like to try and give the Lahmian methodology another chance and re-read a little more deeply in to them.

 

[Shareya]

Do you mean in what books they did a bit of dirty work and raised at least some corpses to fight for them?

 

[woodster17]

Aye, yes please!

 

[Uziel]

In the second Ulrika book, there were lahmians in kislev whom had prepared stuffed bears and the like, which their leader animated if needed.
In the new neferata book, neferata herself learned necromancy, and if I recall correctly, used this to help capture the silver pinnacle.
In the older army books, necerata invaded the silver pinnacle using an army of zombies, ghouls and skeletons.
In the sigmar trilogy, the vampire general of nagask (al-muntasir) who is revealed to be a get of neferata in the neferata book, leads undead armies to battle.

Not that many examples, but that can be said for some of the other bloodlines as well..

 

[woodster17]

Those are relatively old examples though (as in the timeline, not the fluff release). It's weird, Lahmians are the progenitors of the Vampire bloodlines, all Vampires can trace their ancestry back to Lahmia, and yet in the modern fluff ie. 2525 IC, it's the other bloodlines that are more popular among the writers. It'd be great to hear more about their machinations; that's why I enjoyed the Ulrika series so much. The trilogy was kind of left open ended too and seems to take place before Gotrek and Felix meet Ulrika (we get to see the origins of Mistress Wither of course). I hope Nathan Long expands upon it, although I hope for some more G+F novels too.

 

[Shareya]

Those are relatively old examples though (as in the timeline, not the fluff release). It's weird, Lahmians are the progenitors of the Vampire bloodlines, all Vampires can trace their ancestry back to Lahmia, and yet in the modern fluff ie. 2525 IC, it's the other bloodlines that are more popular among the writers. It'd be great to hear more about their machinations; that's why I enjoyed the Ulrika series so much. The trilogy was kind of left open ended too and seems to take place before Gotrek and Felix meet Ulrika (we get to see the origins of Mistress Wither of course). I hope Nathan Long expands upon it, although I hope for some more G+F novels too.

The other bloodlines are more popular because they have got a lot more focus. Lahmians have got a bit more spotlight only recently. Also mind you, this makes sense. Von's are easy to use for army books as they are the ones who keep trying to take over the Empire via warfare. While the Lahmians do so more via manipulations/blending in what to be honest tends to make them better for books at times x)

Anyhoo, the first example I can quickly think of the top off my head and what happened 'recently' . . . is in Manslayer! Where the Lahmians animate up a skaven undead army while fighting cultists/mutants.

Also in the last Ulrika book the Lahmians raised up a army as well when going into the fight but I believe most of them where made up of dire wolves but that was mostly because they could not pillage a graveyard or somesuch in time x)

Edit:

Yes the Ulrika books where left open. The books end where she strikes out in her own but in Manslayer ( what takes place 15-20 years after the last Ulrika book, I asked the author), she is back with her Mistress and adjusting to the Lahmian way of life. Well somewhat at least as Gabriella finally gave up and mostly allows her to be a bodyguard / do the gruntwork to stop her from going insane probably.
There might be more books in the future, heavily depends how well the Ulrika books sold.

 

[michaelsaint64]

to the point he keeps reminding the rest of the past they had and make them ever so uncomfortable.

Yeah, I'd probably be doing the exact same thing.

Of course, that IS one of the reasons I like Blood Dragons after all.

I am brand-new to this forum, so I'll throw my hat into the ring with the following 8th Edition rendition of our favorite, blood-stained dragon-slayer:

- Vampire Lord “Abhorash”: level-2 wizard (35), heavy armor (6), shield (3), hand weapon, lance (10), dread knight (10), master strike (15), fear incarnate (20), curse of revenant (55), ogre blade (40), dragonhelm (10), talisman of endurance (30), potion of toughness (20),
+ (total: 498 pts) barded nightmare, or
+ (total: 704 pts) coven throne (blood dragon version, with blood-thirsty Blood Dragon valkyries instead of limp-wristed Lahmian handmaids) (note: throne includes ward 4+ save, so replace talisman of endurance with obsidian amulet (30).

Weapon Skill 9, Strength 7, Toughness 8 (for one turn), Wounds 4 ;
On the nightmare, Armor Save 1+, Ward Save 5+ ;
On the throne, Armor Save 3+, Ward Save 4+, Magic Resistance-2.

 

[Deathless Dreamer]

Those are relatively old examples though (as in the timeline, not the fluff release). It's weird, Lahmians are the progenitors of the Vampire bloodlines, all Vampires can trace their ancestry back to Lahmia, and yet in the modern fluff ie. 2525 IC, it's the other bloodlines that are more popular among the writers.

That's because the Lahmians are pants. :lol:

 

[Von Nachspiel]

The Cthrone sadly don't confer the wardsave to its rider, michael. And the lance only adds +2 strength on the charge... But i think youre on to something The closest interpretation I can think of is our standard QB,RF ogerblade ToP OTS But with full plate conferring MR1 that stacks with wardsave, curse of the revenant, dread knight, +1attack and +1 initiative. Everything but the +1 initiative can be calculated by magic items/vampowers even if its way above the point limit for a vlord. I don' think of him as more than a lvl2 LoV. And i would also want him to have the killing blow special rule and a special rule that grants him unmodified armoursaves from stomps The points-tag should be quite a bit over the sum of all single items and abilities seeing they synergize very well with eachother...

I agree that he is too powerful fluffwise to make a balanced charter ingame, but the thread asked for a fanboy interpretation, and this is the closest I get For those of you that think vamps are too powerful ingame already: yes we are spoiled on the CC-abilities of our vamps, but that doesn't justify that one of the oldest and strongest vampires shouldn't be even stronger from a fanboys perspective.

on to the lahmian problem. I love the subterfuge, but cannot find a way to implement their characteristics as generals in a tabletop wargame. They could fill roles as seductive assassin vampirc heroes, but it wont be right in the sense of the fluff.

 

[Shareya]

Lahmians do have their fighters they are just much more rare as they are simply not needed most of the time.

I would love if they added a Lahmian hero and her handmaidens that somehow inspire fear and other nasty effects when they run into enemies. I need to find that quote again ._.

Edit: No, coven throne does not count!

 

[Ordo Cruentus]

Lahmians do have their fighters they are just much more rare as they are simply not needed most of the time.

I would love if they added a Lahmian hero and her handmaidens that somehow inspire fear and other nasty effects when they run into enemies. I need to find that quote again ._.

Edit: No, coven throne does not count!

I'd love for their to be official stats for Ulrika...that would be so badass.

EDIT: Also, as to the OP, Abhorash should have better-in-game stats than...Well, his special rules should read: "Are you in Melee with Abhorash? He wins. Sorry. Yes, we know you have your double-special always make your save item. He still wins. Move on. Hopefully that huge sink of points didn't make you lose the game. What are you still reading this for? Abhorash won. Go weep unmanly tears in the corner, and order a pizza or something."

The rule would be snarky.