So what fluff is known about Ahborash? Also how well would he stack up in a fight versus differnt things like say a bloodthirster or Sigmar?
Ahborash
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Seth the Dark
Zombie
Pietr Von Carstein
Varghulf
Not wishing to cheapen the heroic feat in any way, but he didn't use his bare hands (he'd have to be swallowed by the damned thing).
WA:VC p.63 is the obvious starting point, the first fluff about Abhorash was printed in White Dwarf around the time of the first (5th Ed.) WA:VC in 1999, issues around 225, I don't know if p.63 is a direct reprint though. There is more fluff in Black Library's Liber Necris and some of our own forumites' writings in the Invocation #5, but that's currently offline.
WA:VC p.63 is the obvious starting point, the first fluff about Abhorash was printed in White Dwarf around the time of the first (5th Ed.) WA:VC in 1999, issues around 225, I don't know if p.63 is a direct reprint though. There is more fluff in Black Library's Liber Necris and some of our own forumites' writings in the Invocation #5, but that's currently offline.
I'll get the articles abck on line later. The fluff I have read suggests that Abhorash is one of the best warriors in existence. He has devoted all of his thousands of years to this task as well as being a master vampire. Whilst there are no direct comparison fluff he was meant to be unbeaten, as well as enhanced by the fire dragons blood he drank (IIRC he didn't use his bare hands but a sword).
So I would say pure martial skill wise he would probably just beat Archaon (I.e be WS10 whilst I believe Archaon is WS9?), be a match for a Bloodthirster etc.
However fighting isn't just about skill but other things so I wouldn't say he would walk all over those foes. Suffice to say he would be a match for them, and the fight would probably be epic. If I had to choose I would put money on Abhorash.
So I would say pure martial skill wise he would probably just beat Archaon (I.e be WS10 whilst I believe Archaon is WS9?), be a match for a Bloodthirster etc.
However fighting isn't just about skill but other things so I wouldn't say he would walk all over those foes. Suffice to say he would be a match for them, and the fight would probably be epic. If I had to choose I would put money on Abhorash.
Arkhan
Grave Guard
I wonder how much the world would tremble if Abhorash emerged with an entire army of Blood Dragons? My guess is that he probably don't care much about the conflicts of the world.
Like most characters of the extravagant nature his feats were surely exaggrated. We know next to nothing what happend to him after he killed the dragon upon that mountain top. He is, or possibly was, one of the greatest fighters in the warhammer fantasy world, of that I have no doubt. I assume to know nothing but I still like to speculated, as I hinted before he might be dead, yes I went there, and never to be seen again.
What is very much alive is his legacy, a philosphy of martial perfection, of discipline, of honour. In this regard, he has transcended all other master vampires and truly have reached immortality. This is just one possibility, of course, just throwing it out there. As for what I believe is true, hmm, his death is just as likely as him sitting in some cave(probably a dragon's lair) in eternal meditation.
An intriguing character this Abhorash and definetely one of my favourite VC characters.
What is very much alive is his legacy, a philosphy of martial perfection, of discipline, of honour. In this regard, he has transcended all other master vampires and truly have reached immortality. This is just one possibility, of course, just throwing it out there. As for what I believe is true, hmm, his death is just as likely as him sitting in some cave(probably a dragon's lair) in eternal meditation.
An intriguing character this Abhorash and definetely one of my favourite VC characters.
Hard to say, he's definitely a playable character rules wise but I think realistically you're looking at someone who has the stats to take down a great dragon.
M...WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A...LD
6....10....6.....5...5....4...8...6...10
Heroic killing blow, re-rolls to hit and wound, attacker loses an attack, red fury etc.
In terms of fighting though, he could not take on Nagash, none of the vampires even working together could, especially seeing as Nagash could destroy them with a single word. As for killing Sigmar, no, Sigmar is the ultimate hero when it comes to badassery, he mullered Nagash, the first everchosen and countless Orc warlords, Vampires and Nagash's commanders.
He even makes Anerion look like a pansy and Anerion had the only weapon in existance that could truely kill an immortal creature.
M...WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A...LD
6....10....6.....5...5....4...8...6...10
Heroic killing blow, re-rolls to hit and wound, attacker loses an attack, red fury etc.
In terms of fighting though, he could not take on Nagash, none of the vampires even working together could, especially seeing as Nagash could destroy them with a single word. As for killing Sigmar, no, Sigmar is the ultimate hero when it comes to badassery, he mullered Nagash, the first everchosen and countless Orc warlords, Vampires and Nagash's commanders.
He even makes Anerion look like a pansy and Anerion had the only weapon in existance that could truely kill an immortal creature.
Though I might be wrong I think i remember there being a figure for him once. racks brain. That is a I think or maybe it was another line that im thinking of. If someone can clarify it be awsome. It would of been in 4th or 5th I think.
Arkhan
Grave Guard
Maybe you are thinking of the Red Duke?
The Vampire Counts fluff with all the bloodlines didn't exist either until the 5th edition.
They did make rules for Walach Harkon that is the grand master of the knightly Blood Dragon order, though.
The Vampire Counts fluff with all the bloodlines didn't exist either until the 5th edition.
They did make rules for Walach Harkon that is the grand master of the knightly Blood Dragon order, though.
There have never been rules for Abhorash or a model, though someone did a cool conversion / sculpt on coolminiornot. To be honest, unless the did his rule justice I wouldn't want him the next rulebook.
@ Richie, Sigmar did not muller Nagash. he mullered a pale shadow of what used to be Nagash who was still recovering from his trip beyond the grave, plus the fight was meant to be quite equal between the two with Nagash managing to inflict a wound Sigmar never fully recovered from. Had Sigmar faced Nagash at the height of his power I have no doubt he would have been squished
/end fanboy rant
@ Richie, Sigmar did not muller Nagash. he mullered a pale shadow of what used to be Nagash who was still recovering from his trip beyond the grave, plus the fight was meant to be quite equal between the two with Nagash managing to inflict a wound Sigmar never fully recovered from. Had Sigmar faced Nagash at the height of his power I have no doubt he would have been squished
/end fanboy rant
If that would have happend an equal, if not greater, reaction of opposites would counter-act Nagash therefore saving the Old World. Such is the way of fantasy.
As for rules for Abhorash I don't think Red Fury should be there. This is a master vampire who's mastered the martials art, meditated and practiced mastery of discipline of body and mind. I see him as someone who's in perfect controll, every move done with a purpose. So the rules I have mind are 100% based on skill and with not a shred of the fury and 'rage' of other Blood Dragon vampires. For example;
His profile would be like a Vampire Count profile but with WS10 +1 W and A(so 6 attacks with Blades of Abhorash). He is a level 3(even if he doesn't pursue a necromatic career his age will have naturally granted him the power which justifies him being a level 3), uses Lore of Vampires.
Mastery of the Mind: Abhorash will never be affected of ANY modifier when rolling to hit and wound. In addition, effect which test against his leadership automatically fail(such as the Lore of Death's Spirit Leech).
Mastery of the Body: Abhorash will pass any characteristic test he required to take. In addition, killing blow has no effect on him. Treat it as a normal wound.
Blademaster: Abhorash will only be hit on a 4+ of higher in combat regardless of WS, special rules or magic items/spells.
Heroic Killing Blow: Goes without saying...
Magic items;
Dragon Scale armour: Immune to fire and poison. 1+ Armour save.
Blades of Abhorash: Paired Weapon, Re-rolls to wound.
Red Ruby of The Blood Keep: Grants him a 5+ Ward Save and MR(3).
This is, more or less, how I envision him. A sort of warrior monk, vastly different from other blood dragons.
Contrary to what other seem to believe I do not believe in this uber-lord idea of abhorash. I base this on the Zacharias fluff who also suck a dragon dry of blood but did not appear to become some super-vampire. 2nd reasons is Neferata who is the first of vampires, then of course the other master vampires and powerful vampire lords who's been off:ed here and there.
As for rules for Abhorash I don't think Red Fury should be there. This is a master vampire who's mastered the martials art, meditated and practiced mastery of discipline of body and mind. I see him as someone who's in perfect controll, every move done with a purpose. So the rules I have mind are 100% based on skill and with not a shred of the fury and 'rage' of other Blood Dragon vampires. For example;
His profile would be like a Vampire Count profile but with WS10 +1 W and A(so 6 attacks with Blades of Abhorash). He is a level 3(even if he doesn't pursue a necromatic career his age will have naturally granted him the power which justifies him being a level 3), uses Lore of Vampires.
Mastery of the Mind: Abhorash will never be affected of ANY modifier when rolling to hit and wound. In addition, effect which test against his leadership automatically fail(such as the Lore of Death's Spirit Leech).
Mastery of the Body: Abhorash will pass any characteristic test he required to take. In addition, killing blow has no effect on him. Treat it as a normal wound.
Blademaster: Abhorash will only be hit on a 4+ of higher in combat regardless of WS, special rules or magic items/spells.
Heroic Killing Blow: Goes without saying...
Magic items;
Dragon Scale armour: Immune to fire and poison. 1+ Armour save.
Blades of Abhorash: Paired Weapon, Re-rolls to wound.
Red Ruby of The Blood Keep: Grants him a 5+ Ward Save and MR(3).
This is, more or less, how I envision him. A sort of warrior monk, vastly different from other blood dragons.
Contrary to what other seem to believe I do not believe in this uber-lord idea of abhorash. I base this on the Zacharias fluff who also suck a dragon dry of blood but did not appear to become some super-vampire. 2nd reasons is Neferata who is the first of vampires, then of course the other master vampires and powerful vampire lords who's been off:ed here and there.
Disciple of Nagash said:
Stop treading on my dreams! ;_ ;
I quite like Dance's version of Aborash, especially the part about ignoring negative modifiers to his WS.
Thanks Richie. I always found Abhorash to be something more than just a Blood Dragon with all bloodline powers attached to him. He has after all freed himself of the thirst and given his iron win and discipline I doubt he'd act like other Blood Dragons, ie, like the fluff describe "red fury" and so on. The rules I wrote up I pretty much made up on the spot so there is probably room for improvement but yeah, that's how I think of Abhorash... Though if GW ever decide to make rules for him I am sure he'll get a rather predictable rules-set of "Blood Dragon, only more powerful"-treatment.
I sort of hope they keep him shrouded in mystery and do not release any rules for him. He is more or less unknown to the world and because of this it makes no sense for him to appear leading armies here and there.
I sort of hope they keep him shrouded in mystery and do not release any rules for him. He is more or less unknown to the world and because of this it makes no sense for him to appear leading armies here and there.
I think that Abhorash is hanging out in Cathay. He's got a whole audience of Asian action-heroes to teach his super duper skills of awesomeness to. Next edition will hearken the coming of Fantasy Bruce-Lee, and the world with tremble!
I like the rules DanceMan. I really like coming up with rules myself so here's my take on him.
Abhorash the Blood Lord 700 points
M....WS....BS...S....T...W....I....A...LD
6.....10......7....5....5....4....9....5...10
You may only include one Abhorash in your army. If you include Abhorash then he must be your General.
Magic
Abhroash is a level 3 wizard and knows spells from Lore of the Vampire
Equipment
Hand Weapon
Shield
Armor of Blood
Special Rules
Undead
Vampire
Blood of the Dragon
Martial Prowess
Honor of the Blood Dragon
Disciples of Abhorash
Heroic Killing Blow
Devastating Charge
Supernatural Horror
Aura of the Dark Majesty
Options
Additional Hand Weapon......5 points
Halberd............................5 points
Great Weapon...................10 points
Lance (mounted only).........10 points
Barded Nightmare...............15 points
Zombie Dragon...................275 points
Greater Zombie Dragon........400 points
Armor of the Red Dragon
Crafted from the scales of the red dragon that ended Abhorash's thirst, The Armor of the Red Dragon bestows a 4+ armor save (this may be combined with other equipment as normal) and a 4+ Ward save. In addition Abhorash is immune to flaming attacks.
Blood of the Dragon
Abhorash has drank from a red dragon eliminating his thirst forever. Abhorash will never take wounds for crumbling/unstable and is immune to killing blow. In essence Abhorash has the Unbreakable rule and loses the unstable rule.
Abhorash may still join any unit he would normally be able to but he does not bestow this upon any unit he joins. Undead units still take wounds from combat as per the Unstable rules but any wounds that would normally be allocated to Abhorash are first located to other characters. If there will be no characters left alive then further wounds are discarded.
Martial Prowess
Such practiced with every form of warfare Abhorash to hit roll is never modified and his weapon skill may never be reduced for any reason. May re-roll all to hit and to wound rolls. In addition Abhorash's attacks count as magical.
Abhorash's immense martial skill allows him to re-roll any characteristics tests he is require to make (including for leadership tests).
Such is his pride for his own martial prowess that he is never affected by augment spells that would increase his strength, initiative or number of attacks (he will still benefit from spells that bestow always strike first).
Honor of the Blood Dragon
Abhorash must issue a challenge if at all possible. He must accept any challenges issued to him. When fighting challenges, Abhorash has the Red Fury vampire power.
Monsters are able to accept challenges issued by Abhorash.
Disciples of Abhorash
Abhorash has returned to the Old World to gather those he deems worth to be tested in battle. At least one unit of Blood Knights must be taken in an army that includes Abhorash.
This unit (and only this unit, other Blood Knight units follow normal rules) must have a champion and will never lose their frenzy as they strive to prove their worth in their lord's eyes.
The only character that may join this unit is Abhorash.
Greater Zombie Dragon
M....WS....BS...S....T...W....I....A...LD
6.....6......0.....6....6....6....2....6...7
Special Rules
Undead
Fly
Terror
3+ Scaly Skin
Magic Resistance (2)
Cloud of Flies
Fiery Pestilent Breath (Strength 4, flaming, -3 total armor save modifier)
________________________________________________________________________________
He is quite powerful but I figured I should do him justly according to the fluff. He is a hefty amount of points base being more expensive than Archaeon but I think it will be an even fight between them with Archaeon's ward save and potential for 10 attacks. However Abhroash is only strength 5 but he virtually gets all the benefits of undead without any of the drawbacks.
There are a few characters that could take him on head to head. One that comes to mind is a Dwarf lord with +1 save, rune of resistance, Rune of Might and rune that D6 wounds (would have a +3 rerolling armor save against him, strike at strength 10 and cause D6 wounds).
I didn't want to give him a particular magic weapon because in the fluff he's master of all weapons and thought it would be cool to allow him to have a choice of weapons. BTW the barded nightmare is 15 points instead of 20 because I wanted players to be able to take him mounted with a lance at 3000 points.
I gave him red fury, but only during challenges. I see him as a disciplined fighter, holding his reserve until he fights in solo combat in which he fights with all the fury he possess in order to test his opponent. Also to keep him from killing blow a mountain chimera and gaining another 10 attacks to use on the unit.
Too powerful? Too cheap? Too expensive? Too many rules? Obviously this is for fun games of legendary proportions. Didn't want him to be able to be used in anything less than 3000 points.
Abhorash the Blood Lord 700 points
M....WS....BS...S....T...W....I....A...LD
6.....10......7....5....5....4....9....5...10
You may only include one Abhorash in your army. If you include Abhorash then he must be your General.
Magic
Abhroash is a level 3 wizard and knows spells from Lore of the Vampire
Equipment
Hand Weapon
Shield
Armor of Blood
Special Rules
Undead
Vampire
Blood of the Dragon
Martial Prowess
Honor of the Blood Dragon
Disciples of Abhorash
Heroic Killing Blow
Devastating Charge
Supernatural Horror
Aura of the Dark Majesty
Options
Additional Hand Weapon......5 points
Halberd............................5 points
Great Weapon...................10 points
Lance (mounted only).........10 points
Barded Nightmare...............15 points
Zombie Dragon...................275 points
Greater Zombie Dragon........400 points
Armor of the Red Dragon
Crafted from the scales of the red dragon that ended Abhorash's thirst, The Armor of the Red Dragon bestows a 4+ armor save (this may be combined with other equipment as normal) and a 4+ Ward save. In addition Abhorash is immune to flaming attacks.
Blood of the Dragon
Abhorash has drank from a red dragon eliminating his thirst forever. Abhorash will never take wounds for crumbling/unstable and is immune to killing blow. In essence Abhorash has the Unbreakable rule and loses the unstable rule.
Abhorash may still join any unit he would normally be able to but he does not bestow this upon any unit he joins. Undead units still take wounds from combat as per the Unstable rules but any wounds that would normally be allocated to Abhorash are first located to other characters. If there will be no characters left alive then further wounds are discarded.
Martial Prowess
Such practiced with every form of warfare Abhorash to hit roll is never modified and his weapon skill may never be reduced for any reason. May re-roll all to hit and to wound rolls. In addition Abhorash's attacks count as magical.
Abhorash's immense martial skill allows him to re-roll any characteristics tests he is require to make (including for leadership tests).
Such is his pride for his own martial prowess that he is never affected by augment spells that would increase his strength, initiative or number of attacks (he will still benefit from spells that bestow always strike first).
Honor of the Blood Dragon
Abhorash must issue a challenge if at all possible. He must accept any challenges issued to him. When fighting challenges, Abhorash has the Red Fury vampire power.
Monsters are able to accept challenges issued by Abhorash.
Disciples of Abhorash
Abhorash has returned to the Old World to gather those he deems worth to be tested in battle. At least one unit of Blood Knights must be taken in an army that includes Abhorash.
This unit (and only this unit, other Blood Knight units follow normal rules) must have a champion and will never lose their frenzy as they strive to prove their worth in their lord's eyes.
The only character that may join this unit is Abhorash.
Greater Zombie Dragon
M....WS....BS...S....T...W....I....A...LD
6.....6......0.....6....6....6....2....6...7
Special Rules
Undead
Fly
Terror
3+ Scaly Skin
Magic Resistance (2)
Cloud of Flies
Fiery Pestilent Breath (Strength 4, flaming, -3 total armor save modifier)
________________________________________________________________________________
He is quite powerful but I figured I should do him justly according to the fluff. He is a hefty amount of points base being more expensive than Archaeon but I think it will be an even fight between them with Archaeon's ward save and potential for 10 attacks. However Abhroash is only strength 5 but he virtually gets all the benefits of undead without any of the drawbacks.
There are a few characters that could take him on head to head. One that comes to mind is a Dwarf lord with +1 save, rune of resistance, Rune of Might and rune that D6 wounds (would have a +3 rerolling armor save against him, strike at strength 10 and cause D6 wounds).
I didn't want to give him a particular magic weapon because in the fluff he's master of all weapons and thought it would be cool to allow him to have a choice of weapons. BTW the barded nightmare is 15 points instead of 20 because I wanted players to be able to take him mounted with a lance at 3000 points.
I gave him red fury, but only during challenges. I see him as a disciplined fighter, holding his reserve until he fights in solo combat in which he fights with all the fury he possess in order to test his opponent. Also to keep him from killing blow a mountain chimera and gaining another 10 attacks to use on the unit.
Too powerful? Too cheap? Too expensive? Too many rules? Obviously this is for fun games of legendary proportions. Didn't want him to be able to be used in anything less than 3000 points.
The article section is back online, so you can read the background on Abhorash, as well as custom rules created by CN here: https://www.vampirecounts.net/mydownloads.php?action=view_down&did=28
vampire lord bezza
Zombie
Richie said:
If there were rules for sigmar would prob be
M...WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A...LD
4...10...10...10....6...6....9...10...10
and similar equipment to Valten
something along them lines