Aligning after the charge and Make Way

[dongilles]

Last night the following happend

http://1drv.ms/WZvJ74

Trolls want to Charge my Terrogheist.
Normally you just wheel to your target that most models will get in combat, move in a straight line and close the door.
Now because of the Fanatic this isn't possible. What we do is, wheel to the target just enough that the Trolls just miss the Fanatic. But now instead of 4 Trolls that are only 2 Trolls in combat, do the models align so all trolls are in combat or is it just bat luck for the Trolls and only 2 can fight?

Next question

In the corner of a Savage Orks units stand a Wizard, I want to kill him with my Vampire. If I charge in a straight line my Vampire is in base to base contact with the Wizard but because I need to bring most models in combat, the Vampire is just out of reach.
If I charge I can do a Make Way move right? So the Vampire can move to the spot that I want but the wizard also wants to make way, what now?

 

[John Rainbow]

Ok so lets start at the beginning... you measure distances closest to closest point on each model/unit. The actual distance they travel makes no difference and where possible you must complete the charge so as to maximise the number of models in contact. This means maximised when they make contact, you do not make contact then shift things to maximise.

What this means in the first case you give is that the trolls can move as far as they like before making the single 90 degree wheel they are allowed to get into the facing they are charging. In this sistuation they have to move past the fanatic and then wheel such that it looks like only 2 or 3 will be in direct base to base contact. This is maximised, you do not move them once you get to B2B.

In the second example the closest distance B2B is all that matters when completing a charge, not the actual distance your unit/models end up moving. For instance there might be a unit partially blocked by terrain that is 9" away through the terrain but 14" in actual movement. As silly as it sounds you roll the charge against the closest distance so that 9" through the terrain is all that matters. In the scenario you describe this means that the vampire can charge and you could position him on corners with the Wizard such that he is also touching some of the other Orcs to maximise the number of units in combat.

i.e. O is Orcs, W is wizard, V is vampire, you would align as follows:

-------------V
OOOOOOOOOOOW
OOOOOOOOOOOO

(note the --- signs are nothing, I just had to use them so it looked right)

Once you are in B2B neither model is allowed to make way. The only way your opponent could prevent you attacking the wizard would be to challenge or refuse one. If instead you had charged your vamp into the center of the unit and the wizard was on the corner, you would not be allowed to make way as this would take one of the enemy models out of base to base contact and replace him with the wizard which is not allowed. Again the only way you could get to the wizard would be with a challenge. If this happened and your vamp was in the middle of the unit, his wizard would be allowed to make way however and get into B2B with your unit if he wanted.

Hopefully this helps. Take a read of the CC, characters and champions sections of the BRB too and post again if you still need help.

 

[Skittelz1981]

I am giving backup to John rainbow's explanation. He has it right.
-Distance to be charged is closest points of both enemy units in a straight lines. Once rolled, the actual distance travelled is unimportant.
From your pic, it looks as if the trolls can simply move a few inches forward, then free-wheel as much as possible to pass right along the fanatic and bring as much Trolls as possible into contact and close the door. There is absolutely no maximizing by shifting units sideways.
Obviously, if there is room to wheel in such a way to bring 3 trolls into combat then he MUST do so, so if the move is played out not completely right but its obvious that 3 are supposed to get into cc then you make it so. But there would be no shifting sideways to bring a fourth in combat if the initial wheel and path wouldnt allow it.


-Make Way can only be used if your character is not in combat. Which means that if it is already in b2b with models, he cannot make way. So idd, the only way to get his shaman is a challenge.
If you can maximize your charge and get into b2b with the wizard then its ok but if the path is clear and the maximizing charge puts your vamp in a position that is not in contact with the wizard then your vamp cannot attack him.

 

[StavrosVonStrongheim]

On the 2nd question, you can reform at the end of the round, so your vampire can be in front of his wizard. By reforming, you are allowed to change your formation and position of models, as long as models that were in combat are still in combat. You will lose 1 round of attacking his wizard, but I don't see any other way of hitting him.

 

[dongilles]

Thanks for helping me!

Question 1 is clear now, the thing we did wrong was that we thought that the wheel was always the first step in moving the chargers.

Question 2, I didnt explain it right, I forgot to mention that the Vampire is also in a unit. I understand that once I am in B2B combat the Vampire cant move unless I reform at the end of the round. But if I am not in B2B combat yet so during the charge is it possible to Make Way and put my Vampire infront of the Wizard?

 

[Skittelz1981]

No, the positioning of the Vamp is done in the movement phase, which is after charging. So when you charge, the formation youre in is how you are making contact. The position of your vamp is also fixed, otherwise you would simply be allowed to reform into any formation during a charge....

which jumps to the conclusion that the turn before you want to make a charge, you alreadt put you vamp where you want him to be for the next move. This is the chess-game within Warhammer, positioning your characters the right way and anticipating on the next turn and your options.

 

[dongilles]

Thanks everything is clear now

 

[John Rainbow]

This is the chess-game within Warhammer, positioning your characters the right way and anticipating on the next turn and your options.

Great comment. +1

This tends to be the reason why characters are always placed on the edge of units or in the ranks after the first. Initially this reduces any potential damage that can come their way but it also allows that 'make way' move to be used to get them wherever they might need to go.