bat swarms tag partner?

[Hanblack Nagash]

Now i have read alot of ppl saying batswarms are poor, and with good arguments to support it.

Personally. I have had alot of success using them in partnership with zombies.

Zombies die in droves. Understandable. But when partnered with these little beauties the zombies will get all their attacks.

Now i should mention i use zombies in 100 man units. Horded. They work very well.

Does anyone else found a good use for them?
Ive also comboed them with gw gravies. Another effective combo.

 

[Powl]

I have used them together with ghouls, nice to have all the poison go first. Down go the bloodletters!

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

I have used them together with ghouls, nice to have all the poison go first. Down go the bloodletters!

Im irritated that i never thought to try em with ghouls lol

Nice one

 

[Corien Sumatris]

So I don't have my book with me at work. Do the batswarms cause ASL to the unit they are in contact with or just models in B2B?

 

[Powl]

ASL to the whole unit

Geordieclubba: I got irritated to get killed by bloodletters every time before I could swing The bats will always work compared to ASF from the corpse cart.
And when my opponent fielded plaguebearers... well, still a nice drop & redirector, and I have managed some improbable kills with them as well.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Nice! Those just got an upgrade in my eyes.

 

[Powl]

Yes, they're not that bad in my opinion. Just make sure that you field them corner to corner, to minimize attacks directed at them. T2 will really hurt.

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Powl is right.
A mistake u see alot is people flanking with them. That is a big mistake in combo combat with them

 

[Borgnine]

Corner to corner? You mean putting them in square formations, attacking corners of enemy units or something else maybe?

I knew that they would be effective in making enemies go last and I ordered three "models" of them - but I always thought that flanking is the way to go...

I never really played, only getting to it and I would appreciate some advice about using them from someone experienced..

 

[Powl]

With 'corner to corner', I meant minimizing the hits the enemy unit can allocate at the bats. Field them 1-wide so the enemy unit has as little models in base contact as possible. And take care to fit the bats just at the 'corner' of the combat, so not assisting your 5-wide unit against a 10-wide enemy unit: 3 enemy models will be in base contact, and additional ranks will make short work of the bats.

Thoughts: maybe flanking the bats will work too, since only 3 models will be able to strike back and you get +1 CR? I've never done that. But be sure not to get charged yourself the next turn.

 

[Rizzo]

100 zombies should get all their attacks back through attrition with the step-up rule.

 

[Borgnine]

Thanks! I suppose I will learn how to use them while playing but this advice is a very good start ;]

 

[Powl]

Yes, trial and error worked for me (still does )
Striking first is always nice, and if not they will cancel the ASF rerolls (yes you, High Elves).

 

[eggsPR]

They work great with I2 Crypt Horrors, even the stomps are then simultaneous.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Wow, yeah I was thinking ghouls but horrors would be amazing too!!

 

[Narenzade]

Works well with GG with Great Weapons.

 

[hairyjeff]

If you can get it to work out, bats can be awesome as a tag team with blood knights. Good night swordmasters/white lions.

 

[Ads]

Note you can only have a special rule once, so swordmasters/white lions already have ASL from their great weapons. So bat swarms will not have any effect one when they strike

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

I find it interesting that this thread proves they are very useful. But yet all i hear is how poor they are.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Note you can only have a special rule once, so swordmasters/white lions already have ASL from their great weapons. So bat swarms will not have any effect one when they strike

I disagree that you can only have a special rule once. for instance frenzy gives you the "extra attack" special rule, and having an additional hand weapon also gives you the "Extra Attack" special rule and those 2 stack. I also believe that it is stated in the BRB that unless stated otherwise special rules stack (I would give a page number but I am at work and don't have the book with me)

I also don't know how the Highelves ASF rule is written but if it stated that the ASL from weapons is ignored then that means that they can still be affected by ASL from other sources.

@Geordieclubba: I think that the biggest issue is their price tag. They seem to be a one hit wonder and they are very vulnerable to .. well .. everything. Against someone who doesn't know what they do then they will probably be ignored, but if someone knows what they do then they could send a chaff unit into them and kill them. Or just shoot at them with crossbows or longbows (which against the GG next to them killing maybe 3 or 4 models isn't a huge deal)

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

@corien

Cost isnt so bad. First off if they shooting at bats they are ignoring the main unit.
Secondly shooting at bats is -1 to hit so thats all good for me.
If they send a chaff unit at them then they proberly exposing a flank so thats not to bad.
Plus its more amusing when the bat swarm hovers over the unit out of their arc.

Another plus for them is that if they are corner to corner in combat You have to do ten wounds to get rid of asl debuff. Not too bad

 

[eggsPR]

Something having ASF plus 2 things that make it ASL (GW and bats) doesn't make it ASL full stop, like Swordmasters/WLs... They still just strike at their initiative with no chance of rerolls regardless of the opponent's initiative.

Disagree all you want, but that's just the way it is

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Oh I'm not saying that it's bad, Just that it is there biggest downfall. I still want to give them a try for sure (Especially since i found 4 new blisters of them lying around my house last night! )

I do think that people underestimate their potential, and those 10 wounds that they need to cause to get rid of ASL will strike at ASL .... Meaning it's either at the same inititive step at the rest of your bros or after the rest of your bros (depending on what the bats are supporting).

 

[Rizzo]

I have tried over and over to make these and the copse cart ASF feature important. They just aren't in this edition. ASF is useful for re-rolls to hit. ASF is useful in one on one challenge situations. 40 skellies/zombies/ghouls/grave guard or 12 CH/Black Knights vs chunk of anything and you neither gain nor loose attacks. You also don't reduce the number of attacks coming at you. You will get way more mileage out of an extra lvl 1 necro with lore of vampires than you will out of bats or corps cart.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Hmm I would tend to agree partially. I guarentee this has been argued in every way possible and for both sides (or all three sides if you're trying to say that elves still get ASF)

Side 1: Elves always get ASF: With the rules in place, Elves get ASF regardless of which weapon they are weilding. Batswarms come in give them ASL. The great weapon is already giving them ASL and just ignores the penelty. A model cannot bew affected by the same special rule unless stated otherwise (I was indeed wrong in my previous post regarding this topic :slapface: ). So since they are already being affected by ASL and ignoring the penelty then they cannot be affected by a second ASL, Thus elves have ASF no matter what (I disagree with this, I just thought it should be mentioned)

Side 2: Elves strike at initiative order with no rerolls: Now that I know how the rule is stated I am leaning more towards this idea. Sorry for the nooby mistake ya'll. ASF and ASL cancle eachother out thus ASF + ASF + ASL + ASL + ASL always ends in the same result.

Side 3: Elves strike last in this situation: Yeah this is kind of a null and void idea buuut here it goes. ASF and ASL Cancel out eachothers effects. A model can only be affected by a special rule once due to the mighty BRB. However ASF + ASL = Nothing. Key word here is going to be Affected. If a model is now affected by neather ASF or ASL and then a new form of ASL is introduced then it would now have ASL. This is because it is only being affected by 1 form of ASL.

Have fun, but be gental, I'm still new at this :lol: