Battling the new Ogres

[Grish]

You can't add 9 Wraith Heroes at 2000 pts...

Anyways that's a ridiculously custom build. I wouldn't do that to an Ogre player.

 

[eggsPR]

Some of the things I've picked up watching a few ogre armies in action;
- Their distance charges hurt, ALOT! For us, I think this just gives us more impetus to get in as close as possible to deny them their additional bonuses.
Knights/impact hit units/etherals aside, we still don't really want to charge ourselves, simply because letting the ogres make the short range charge means we can heal-up the damage after just 1 round.

- Hellheart cripples us & TK's. Other armies can make do without a magic phase or two. The HH though easily denys us an entire phase, while ptentially killing our casters to boot! Combined with a dispel scroll, it's a great way for ogres to very effectively neuter 2 critical magic phases.
Slaughter masters & firebellys seem like the popular candidates to carry the HH, so getting to their wizards is crucial for us.

I'd like to find ways to not be a total dick and just go purple sun/pit on the ogres, as that's even more unfun than getting hit by the HH!
Perhaps a cheap hellsteed lord who can swoop in and take out an ogre caster 1st/2nd turn? Or maybe a tooled up wight king on steed, perhaps leading 5 black knights run in a 3x2 lance style formation to minimise contact with anyone beyond the caster, or even a vargulf?
I honestly don't think we have a 'cheap' solution here outside of being 'That Guy' and using an auto-win button style spell.

- Our core can't match the ogres damage output. Even ghouls struggle a bit, because they also wound on 5's, so they're relying a bit too heavily on their poison.
I say the best way to combat this is to keep everyone bar GG units to just the minimum 5-wide frontage to deny base-to-base with as many fat guys as possible! Add in an ethereal character or two to a skeleton unit with HW/shield and we could potentially limit the ogres to just 2-4 models attacking!

- etherals are gold vs ogres. 'Nuff said, they still lack access to lots of magical attacks! Skirmishing wraith units in the flanks will eventually roll up the ogre's flank.

Yep, you just about summed it up.

If I may rant about the heallheart... After I rolled an 11 on PD and before I cast any spells, I got hit with the hellheart without knowing what it was... I had to read it for myself. For 50 points it's wayyyyy too powerful, especially with our generals being wizards and within 24" there's a chance he pops 'like that'. Anyway, after 2 miscasts, almost killing both spellcasters AND sucking away all my PD, I wouldn't think twice about sending a purple sun across his frontage.

Looking ahead, it's items like that which REALLY makes me salivate when I think about what's coming down the pike when GW re-tools the VC Army List for 8th edition.

Oh and a couple more things on battling Ogres.

The terrorgheist is great against them. One scream at a unit of 3 of their monstrous calvary and BAM he's down to one. Same with the IronBlaster (don't scream directly at it, stay out of LOS... it'll win in CC).

With core, don't move! Why allow him to get into CC faster? Be like a Dwarf army. Hopefully you can decimate him with magic (assuming you survive the HH) and the ghesit taking out his shooting things before he gets to you. Black Coach is great too if you have it wait next to your core, then when the Ogres reach you it's etheral and breaks Ogre units all day.

 

[Uziel]

Looking ahead, it's items like that which REALLY makes me salivate when I think about what's coming down the pike when GW re-tools the VC Army List for 8th edition.

That's going to be interesting to see. I do think we're going to loose most of the current ones, as it seems the number of magic items unique for each army is being drastically reduced (semms like they've set their minds to two pages of the new army books). This might be one area where Vampire Counts can really suffer a huge blow, or if the items are made a little better (especially the iconic ones like the Carstein Ring etc), we could see some new and interesting possibilities arise.

 

[eggsPR]

I. Cannot. Stress. How. Much. I. Hate. The. Hell. Heart!

It should be 3 times its current cost.

Death Magic, pumped up ranged direct damage spells against the Butcher (usually the one who holds the heart).

 

[Uziel]

I. Cannot. Stress. How. Much. I. Hate. The. Hell. Heart!

It should be 3 times its current cost.

Death Magic, pumped up ranged direct damage spells against the Butcher (usually the one who holds the heart).

You opponent does know that it says "One use Only" right? but still, it is very good and really hard to do something about before it is too late.

 

[Nagashizzar]

I. Cannot. Stress. How. Much. I. Hate. The. Hell. Heart!

It should be 3 times its current cost.

Death Magic, pumped up ranged direct damage spells against the Butcher (usually the one who holds the heart).

Tell me about it... My friend play only Ogres and he put it in EVERY game... :mad2:

 

[eggsPR]

I. Cannot. Stress. How. Much. I. Hate. The. Hell. Heart!

It should be 3 times its current cost.

Death Magic, pumped up ranged direct damage spells against the Butcher (usually the one who holds the heart).

You opponent does know that it says "One use Only" right? but still, it is very good and really hard to do something about before it is too late.

Yep, one use, although that's all it needed. 3 wizards in range, 3 miscasts, dead general, gheist crumbles to death (love Ld rolling a 3 for my 40 ghouls, but a 10 with the gheist) without even screaming... All before the end of turn one.

The entire game was over before turn 3, so one use only was more than enough.

January... hurry up and get here! We need new codex!!

 

[Fodderboy]

January... hurry up and get here! We need new codex!!

We get a codex? I'm giving my Winged Nightmare vamp Vortex Grenades and a Power Fist.

 

[eggsPR]

Question on the Rune Maw Banner:

It says When any spell targetting unit is successful, on a 2+ caster must choose a new target. If none available, spell is wasted.

If someone uses Death magic targeting a character in the unit (but not the unit itself) does that spell get redirected on a 2+ as well?

Thanks

 

[Murphey]

Hmm. I would have to say yes. The character is in the unit, so he falls under the protection of the banner.

 

[Bravo_10]

Agreed, in all other cases, magic banners apply to the unit as a whole, including characters who have joined it. This is quite unfortunate with regards to Death magic, as the spells are so close range that you're unlikely to find a viable second target for the redirect.