Beginner looking for help 2450 points

[Sudor]

Hi,

I'm currently playing a campaign with some friends and find myself stuck between a Empire player and a Skaven player. I bought the VC army book about 4 weeks ago but I haven't even browsed the Rule book so I basicly trust my friends on what rules to apply in given situations.

I played 3 games so far and I lost everyone. 2 against Empire and one againts Skaven.

I would like som help to build a list with my current models. Or at least for someone to give me some pointers of what spend the points on. We're not that serious about painted units and a lot of us use some proxy's. The games are friendly but ofc there is a certain amount of prestige.

This is what I have:

Character models
3 Vampires (one mounted)
3 Necromancers (one mounted)
2 SGK (One with wings)
1 Cairn Wraith

Core
60 skeletons (20 of those I usually use as GG)
20 Zombies
20 Ghouls
10 Dire wolfs

Special
19 Grave guards (Up to 39 if I use the converted skellies)
9 Black knights
3 Spirit hosts
1(!) Bat swarm (Could use a proxy to reach minimum of 2)
1 Corpse cart

Rare
Terrogheist (I'm really proud of this one!)

What I struggle with, is that when i get som characters with punch! in the list I lack magic. When I try build a magic oriented list I lack units that can make a difference in CC.

Thanks in advice!

/Sudor

Edit: I do not mind buying one or two boxes of models to make this work!

 

[The Sun King]

LORDS:
200 pts Master Necromancer((Lore of Vampires OR Lore of Death)
Level 4 Wizard

375 pts Strigoi Ghoul King(Lore of Vampires)
Sword of Bloodshed, Red Fury, Dragonbane Gem

HEROES:
189 pts Vampire(Lore of Vampires OR Shadow)
Red Fury, Sword of Swift Slaying, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour

100 pts Necromancer(Lore of Death)
The Cursed Book

CORE:
xx pts 5 x Dire Wolves

xx pts 5 x Dire Wolves

185 pts 30 x Skeleton Warriors
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Swiftness

xx pts 20 x Zombies

400 pts 39 x Crypt Ghouls
Crypt Ghast

500 pts 35 x Grave Guard
Full command, Great Weapons, Banner of the Barrows

xx pts 1 x Spirit Host

xx pts 1 x Spirit Host

xx pts 1 x Spirit Host

RARE:
xxx pts 1 x Terrorgheist

Total Army Points: 2449pts



Okay first off, to make this list you will have to buy two boxes of Ghouls, but you said you could buy two boxes if you had to so I took the liberty to utilize that.

IDEAS AND TACTICS
Lords: Okay you said you wanted to be able to fight AND cast spells, and this is indeed an art in itself when playing VC, but it is doable. The Master Necromancer here will provide you with 4 Levels(so you can manage to dispel your enemy's spells) and because you have a SGK the Necro can take Death if you want to go that route, which is totally okay since Death is a great lore. On the other hand you have the SGK, and I have kitted him out to be an ultimate killing machine(I once did 16 wounds on a unit of squigs only with him, needless to say the enemy unit evaporated). But be careful with this guy as he is not the best protected(that also goes for your Master Necro so watch out for those cannons).

Heroes: Here we have the same idea, a little bit of casting(The Cursed Book will hopefully draw out his power dice and dispel dice). And this Baby Vamp is also an excellent fighter(great for challenges).

Core: Your wolves are chaff(use them as such, and deploy them 3 wide - just ask if you don't know why). Your skellies are a delivery system for your Baby Vamp(notice banner of swiftness). Your Zombies are a bunker for your Necros and your ghouls are one of your mainline fighting units.

Special: Know the alert reader will be aware that I love my self a good GG horde with Great Weapons. They have yet to fail me and since they are infantry they get easily raised if they take too many casualties(which they will). The spirit hosts are deployment denial, chaff, and monster blockers(just attack his Hell Pit Abominations with one of these and it will be tied up the whole battle).

Rare: The Terrorgheist is not meant for fighting, it's meant for screaming. Unfortunenately agaisnt Skaven and Empire it will get a lot of cannon balls to it's face so it might not do so much but at least it's drawing fire.


Hope you can use these ideas! Anyway just write if you have any questions. I often play vs Skaven and Empire myself so army specific questions are completely cool as well.

 

[Sudor]

Thnx for the input.

To clearify, I tried a magic oriented list, problem with that one was that there was basicly no unit that could kill anything i CC. I had one GG unit of 25 but that was basicly the only thing that could kill something.

I also did a list with 1 SGK and 2 Baby vampires that wrecked everything but in that game I got owned by in the magic phase.

The list doesn't need to be hybrid. But if I choose to build a magic list I need at least one unit that could use as hammer (25 GG is not that impressive).

/Sudor

Edit: What suits best againts Empire? CC heavy or Magic heavy? Last time he fielded 3 Demigryphs, 20 knights, a cannon and a gatling gun(?). I know he does not have a War altar or Great swords.

 

[The Sun King]

Edit: What suits best againts Empire? CC heavy or Magic heavy? Last time he fielded 3 Demigryphs, 20 knights, a cannon and a gatling gun(?). I know he does not have a War altar or Great swords.

What does Demigryphs and knights have in common? Strong armour saves. What does VC have to counter that? Well actually a couple of things but here is what my posted list have in it's arsenal: Curse of the Years(going the magic route) and GG's with greatweapons AND KILLING BLOW. These GG's will utterly annihilate everything with armour in their way. The only real problem here is that both demigryphs and knights have another thing in common: good movement. Some Hexwraiths good mitigate this problem(since they have good movement, ignore armour saves and are ethereal).

Oh yeah I almost forgot! Your TG just needs to scream a couple of times at the demigryph knights and your opponent will be a very sad panda(same goes for his knights).

Unless your opponent is a weak player he will certainly know that he should avoid a GG horde with his armoured forces. This then becomes your overall strategy: Dodge, redirect and taunt(by kiting him with your TG) his armored units into your grave guard. This is no easy thing to do. But keep in mind that you, unlike him, will raise back up so points denial is easier for us than it is for the empire.

Regarding his volley gun, you shouldn't be afraid of it since you don't have any prime targets for it, just keep your TG more than 24" away from it. This brings me to your main concern: his Great Cannon, you should try to take this out, a scream from the TG is not really an option since it should be screaming at his knights but magic missile like gaze of nagash could be an option. Does he field an engineer?(If he doesn't he doesn't know what he is doing). Also Wind of Death could do some real damage to the Volley Gun and Great Cannon if they're close together(which they should be because they both want the benefit from the engineer).

It seems like a hybrid list that he is fielding... having artillery makes it defensive, but going all-out on knights makes it offensive... you should be able to exploit this duplicity since he can't effectively defend while attacking.

 

[Sudor]

Yes he fields an Engineer, and yes, the gun and the cannon is usually togeather in the middle (or at any hill placed on his side of the board). Reason for him fielding this (knights and demigryphs and nothing else) is simple, he doesn't have the models to field anything else. He has a bunch of Great swords lying around but he hasn't assembled them yet.

Again, thanks for the input!

 

[The Sun King]

Good luck mate

 

[Sudor]

Anyone else with a suggestion? Or is this considered to be the best way to build a list with the models I have?

/Sudor

 

[The Sun King]

Some would argue that you should give your SGK Giant Blade instead of Sword of Bloodshed - but it really depends on what your meta is.

 

[Sudor]

Hi Again

I haven't been able to test this list yet and now I have bought some more units to play with.

This is the addition:

20 GG
40 Zombies
6 Vargheist
1 Wight King
20 Ghouls

Can I alter the list in some way to get use of the Vargheists?

/Sudor

 

[Seneschal]

You need a dispel scroll. Your army could be in big trouble if a pit of shades/purple sun/dwellers wipes a unit.

SGK can also work with sword of might and the other trickster's shard. It's a very handy item.

 

[Sudor]

You need a dispel scroll. Your army could be in big trouble if a pit of shades/purple sun/dwellers wipes a unit.

SGK can also work with sword of might and the other trickster's shard. It's a very handy item.

Yes definitly, however, those spells aint really that popular among my friends for some reason. Dreaded 13 is however, but that tend to be cast with IF, and then i'm screwed anyway.

Been thinking about the OTS acctually, might include that.

What about the vargheists? Is it worth cutting some points to fit them in the list?

 

[Seneschal]

They are definitely a solid choice. 2 units of 3 with champion are in the majority of competitive VC armies.
I'd drop a spirit and one of the characters to get the points for them. Even just one unit will greatly benefit your list.

 

[Sudor]

They are definitely a solid choice. 2 units of 3 with champion are in the majority of competitive VC armies.
I'd drop a spirit and one of the characters to get the points for them. Even just one unit will greatly benefit your list.

Thanks for the input, i'll try that!

 

[Xivigg]

Dreaded 13 can be scary. However it's basically a direct damage spell with a bonus if you successfully remove completely the opposing unit. And i'm pretty sure it has restriction over which kind of unit can be changed into clan rat. With the list Mr. Sun King made, you shouldn't have to worry about losing any important unit to it. Also, i'm sure character inside a unit can resist the spell. Be sure to read it completely a couple of time, it's a strong spell, but it has its limit.

I agree with Seneschal, you need a dispel scroll.

 

[The Sun King]

The problem with Dreaded 13th is that it can be CAST INTO COMBAT... since it is not a direct damage spell in it's description. HOWEVER we have houseruled against this in my gaming group, since we couldn't find any FAQ or Errata to back us up.

 

[Sudor]

Dreaded 13 can be scary. However it's basically a direct damage spell with a bonus if you successfully remove completely the opposing unit. And i'm pretty sure it has restriction over which kind of unit can be changed into clan rat. With the list Mr. Sun King made, you shouldn't have to worry about losing any important unit to it. Also, i'm sure character inside a unit can resist the spell. Be sure to read it completely a couple of time, it's a strong spell, but it has its limit.

I agree with Seneschal, you need a dispel scroll.

Well, first time he casted he got 17 of my graveguards. Second time he turned 14 of them into rats. And that was the game basicly.