Basically a thread about the tactics and stories of your black coach and is it worth taking in your army.
Black Coach
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Has always been worth it, except when it gets pitted by a unit, & even then, it makes a good pit unit against your enemies.
If not i use it like a Vargy, rear Flank Charges whilst completely powered up.
Your enemy has to kill it turn 1-2 or they basically never will...
on the power dice side of it. don't take a magic heavy army when with a black coach.
alternatively take very magic heavy & MotBA to counter it's dice eating.
works well either way.
I love the black coach, however it's usually a choice between the Black coach or blood knights for me, if i take one, i do not take the other.
& hey i normally never play with ghouls, all Skelly's & grave guard etc people tell me im stupid for that, but banner stacking your entire army is pretty bananas
thats my 2 bobs
If not i use it like a Vargy, rear Flank Charges whilst completely powered up.
Your enemy has to kill it turn 1-2 or they basically never will...
on the power dice side of it. don't take a magic heavy army when with a black coach.
alternatively take very magic heavy & MotBA to counter it's dice eating.
works well either way.
I love the black coach, however it's usually a choice between the Black coach or blood knights for me, if i take one, i do not take the other.
& hey i normally never play with ghouls, all Skelly's & grave guard etc people tell me im stupid for that, but banner stacking your entire army is pretty bananas
thats my 2 bobs
What have you found better for the points the black coach or the varg because i notice most lists on here have varg and not coach and also why do they have to kill on turn one or two.
Once just by having it fly around a death star, I kept 1000 points out of 3000 out of close combat the entire game. The threat of the black coach is better than it's combat skills in my opinion.
In combat it normally takes out more than it's points worth every game.
In combat it normally takes out more than it's points worth every game.
Hey, I just wanna know how its magic absorbing rule works.. In the book it says at the start of every magic phase it absorbs the power dice that rolled a 6, does that mean that it'll absorb both your own power dice as well as your opponents? :grave:
I'd like to see how this becomes useful to us..
I'd like to see how this becomes useful to us..
Burnanation
Crypt Horror
Why do they have to kill it by turn two?
As the coach powers up it becomes harder and harder to kill.
By about turn 2 it should have eaten enough dice to give it the boost to MR and maybe ethereal and it's 4+ ward. Therefore it's pretty darn tough to shoot it with missiles or magic.
I would agree with the previous statement that the black coach can be a better threat than the actual combat.
As the coach powers up it becomes harder and harder to kill.
By about turn 2 it should have eaten enough dice to give it the boost to MR and maybe ethereal and it's 4+ ward. Therefore it's pretty darn tough to shoot it with missiles or magic.
I would agree with the previous statement that the black coach can be a better threat than the actual combat.
My black coach have performed remarkably on tournament few days ago.
It almost in every game got 5 or 6 dice by turn 3, and it have killed a lot of stuff.
First on list was Orc BSB, horses killed him with KB, next was Dark Elf lord on manticore, that was killed by wright also KB. :skull: That was 2 important characters, and some units in between
And not to forget, coach did hold some units few turns, with help of IoN and ethereal...
And with 2 Motba vamps, i didn't care much for coach absorbing my dice. Only if i have 1 more model of BC...
I think that is great, as support for inf. and if used well can tarpit (or even break) some opponents.
P.S. Ogers with great magical weapon are evil
It almost in every game got 5 or 6 dice by turn 3, and it have killed a lot of stuff.
First on list was Orc BSB, horses killed him with KB, next was Dark Elf lord on manticore, that was killed by wright also KB. :skull: That was 2 important characters, and some units in between
And not to forget, coach did hold some units few turns, with help of IoN and ethereal...And with 2 Motba vamps, i didn't care much for coach absorbing my dice. Only if i have 1 more model of BC...
I think that is great, as support for inf. and if used well can tarpit (or even break) some opponents.
P.S. Ogers with great magical weapon are evil
I like the Black Coach for games that you can fit that in there and 2 vamps with MotBA, usually lord level Manny and a BSB with Master.
I have seen the list do some amazing things, and frustrate my opponents to no end. Outside of eating my own dice, it also eats the dice of opponents, which helps with RIP spells. Two castings of Curse of Years (due to forbidden lore) on one unit and they are desperately trying to keep that unit alive by stopping the spell.
I also love to use it as a counter for dangerous units. For example, it held up a Steggadon for 4 rounds of combat just because it couldn't get touched (Etherial) and finally lost due to combat res.
Solid addition to my army anytime I have room for it.
I have seen the list do some amazing things, and frustrate my opponents to no end. Outside of eating my own dice, it also eats the dice of opponents, which helps with RIP spells. Two castings of Curse of Years (due to forbidden lore) on one unit and they are desperately trying to keep that unit alive by stopping the spell.
I also love to use it as a counter for dangerous units. For example, it held up a Steggadon for 4 rounds of combat just because it couldn't get touched (Etherial) and finally lost due to combat res.
Solid addition to my army anytime I have room for it.
@ Vorkkael
The way the Coach works is just as its description says. Roll the entire power pool after it is generated (after MotBA, channeling, etc.). Remember that in the 8th edition, all of an army's PD are considered to be in the pool, i.e. there are none generated by and exclusively for individual casters. Any die that comes up as a 6 is absorbed by the Black Coach and permanently increases its abilities. It does indeed absorb both your and your opponent's PD, and it does not stop absorbing once it reaches 6 dice. It just keeps going, and the additional dice have no effect on the Coach's powers. And in case you're wondering, the effects on the "Evocation of Death" chart are cumulative. Once you have 6 dice, it gets...let me think...Scythes, MR3, Killing Blow, Hatred, Ethereal, and Flying.
The way the Coach works is just as its description says.
Roll the entire power pool after it is generated (after MotBA, channeling, etc.). Remember that in the 8th edition, all of an army's PD are considered to be in the pool, i.e. there are none generated by and exclusively for individual casters. Any die that comes up as a 6 is absorbed by the Black Coach and permanently increases its abilities. It does indeed absorb both your and your opponent's PD, and it does not stop absorbing once it reaches 6 dice. It just keeps going, and the additional dice have no effect on the Coach's powers. And in case you're wondering, the effects on the "Evocation of Death" chart are cumulative. Once you have 6 dice, it gets...let me think...Scythes, MR3, Killing Blow, Hatred, Ethereal, and Flying. 
No, all dice are now pool dice, so there is basically no minimum range. Even channelling just adds dice to the pool.
In 7th ed., when each wizard had their own dice, you would roll for each Wizard in range. Wizards do not have their own dice now (usually; I think MotBA still counts as personal dice, but it might be pool dice that has a restriction of only being used by a single wizard. Must look into this.)
So its much more powerful now, having many more dice to draw from. If, on average, there are 7 dice in the pool, you should be absorbing a die a round.
In 7th ed., when each wizard had their own dice, you would roll for each Wizard in range. Wizards do not have their own dice now (usually; I think MotBA still counts as personal dice, but it might be pool dice that has a restriction of only being used by a single wizard. Must look into this.)
So its much more powerful now, having many more dice to draw from. If, on average, there are 7 dice in the pool, you should be absorbing a die a round.
Bravo_10 said:@ Vorkkael
The way the Coach works is just as its description says.
Oh okay, thanks for clearing that up for me
Grish said:
Yes, I was thinking that too, but I then realised that the same applies to our own PD! :grave: Is the Black Coach any good in combat?
Well, the BC is a chariot. Chariots are really good on the charge... and sub-par most of the rest of the time. A fully powered up BC is nasty!
Yes, the MotBA dice go into the PD pool, with a restriction that only the Vamp that generated them can use them.
Yes, the MotBA dice go into the PD pool, with a restriction that only the Vamp that generated them can use them.
Grim Reaper
Zombie
Grim Reaper said:What do you think...? is the black coach better then the varghulf or not
plz coment
These sorts of questions really arent very good you know. Better at what? Killing things? Protecting Flanks? Enabling Victories?
Its easier to answer if you put some situations along with the question.
"What is better at supporting my Ghoul horde against a mainly Caster Heavy army?" for example.
"What is better at crusing my mates Ogre army?" is another one.
The Coach is just a Chariot when it boils down to it, its tough and gets nastier each turn but its still only a Chariot. As has been said earlier it shouldnt do terribly well at killing things if it is not charging.
The Varghulf is however brilliant at killing things in the first round of combat (regardless of whether it has charged or not). Even then it is still sufficiently good at killing things with its high rate of attacks at a medium/high strength + thunderstomp.
However you dont take the Chariot to kill things, you take it to counter the enemies magic capabilities as well as having a flying, Ethereal, Killing Blowing, highly mobile block to flank the enemy.
So it all really depends on what you want it to do. Do you want something to consistently take down 3-5 standard infantry? Then go for the Varghulf.
If you want to try and neuter the enemies magic phase and then throw an ethereal nightmare into the enemies flank? Then go for the Coach.
Which one is better? Both and neither depending on your list, their list, the scenario and points level. Far too many aspects to answer generally.
I have a story! (haven't really seen any so far -.-)
My first (and only game) was against scaven, and by my second turn the coach hadn't absorbed anything yet. By turn three it had three dice sucked up and I charged his clanrats with a now lv 0 Wiz in it. They became quite terrified and ran right off the table. After that my general died to a hellpit abomb (I not understanding at the time that armor goes down the higher the STR is thought he would be safe with the flayed armor and a pair of wristbands protecting him), Since my Coach was a vamp and not subject to degrading he spent the next turn turning toward my friend's General, who promply ran behind the black coach ... Not sure how movement works myself he told me I could turn each turn but not turn and move/get into combat. He is a 7th edition player new to 8th he wouldn't screw me on purpose so I went with it. Anywho, My next turn I turned the coach again whereas now my 4 CC's were taken out he cast the Crack of doom spell and my Chariot miserably failed with init save and fell through the hole. GG!!!
My first (and only game) was against scaven, and by my second turn the coach hadn't absorbed anything yet. By turn three it had three dice sucked up and I charged his clanrats with a now lv 0 Wiz in it. They became quite terrified and ran right off the table. After that my general died to a hellpit abomb (I not understanding at the time that armor goes down the higher the STR is thought he would be safe with the flayed armor and a pair of wristbands protecting him), Since my Coach was a vamp and not subject to degrading he spent the next turn turning toward my friend's General, who promply ran behind the black coach ... Not sure how movement works myself he told me I could turn each turn but not turn and move/get into combat. He is a 7th edition player new to 8th he wouldn't screw me on purpose so I went with it. Anywho, My next turn I turned the coach again whereas now my 4 CC's were taken out he cast the Crack of doom spell and my Chariot miserably failed with init save and fell through the hole. GG!!!
Since the coach sucks during opponents magic phase as well has anyone found it to help with magic defense? I know it's not automatic but.....
I would say split up your force, have something looking really menacing on the left (80 zombies or a z-dragon or something) then on the right a modest black coach and a few elites (GG or even a KoBK) then the enemy has to spilt too to deal with u, after that its plain skating, blackcoach clears up one side of the board with its elites, zombies keep the enemy in combat while you slowly (or not) close in on them with the rest of your army.
Grim Reaper
Zombie
Vampire bk
Ghoul
As stated, there is no longer a "range" on the coach... if its on the table, it will try and suck up dice.
Actually, after being fully powered up it MUST still try and absorb PD... however, no effect (other then the loss of PD) will occur.
Actually, after being fully powered up it MUST still try and absorb PD... however, no effect (other then the loss of PD) will occur.