Black Coach

[Cobra7]

Since the coach sucks during opponents magic phase as well has anyone found it to help with magic defense? I know it's not automatic but.....

I only take the Black Coach when I bring CC vamps (Which is most of the time). It is excelent at limiting your opponents magic phase. Sometimes I end up with more dispel dice than he has power dice. Of course sometimes it works the other way around as well, but I don't count on magic to win with my normal setup.

 

[Isfimbur]

I must say that I am supriced at the fact that most of you have had any success in close combat with this thing. 1 wraith and two horses, killing blow or not, never kills anything of use with that low WS in mu experiance. And since the impact hits dosen't count towards CR if you get the charge those hits won't do much to tip the scale in your favor.

Sure, magic res, flying and etherial is good things to have. But since the thing wont win any important combats and we have things that harass and kill warmachines at a lower point cost, I don't see any room for it in my army to be honest. Perhaps if I would play a non-magic using wight king list or something for the magic def.

 

[Bishop]

What makes you think that impact hits don't count towards CR?

(please supply pg ref if you can find one... )

 

[Vreith]

What makes you think that impact hits don't count towards CR?

(please supply pg ref if you can find one... )

i second this, my st5 impact hits with scythed wheels have helped win every combat they have had to make, so interesting if to know if there's something im missing in the rules

 

[Isfimbur]

hmm, I can't look it up at the moment since I am at work. But as far as I know thunderstomp and impact hits never gives CR. Just how we always played it around these parts, atleast in 8th. I hope im wrong, cause charriots gets used to seldom here.

Not that it matters much thou, you wont break a unit dou to steadfast and in the second combat you will get your ass handed to you more often then not. One could argue that you aren't supposed to charge units that get steadfast with a charriot. But then whats the point? I can't justify getting a 200pts knight killer when said knights can't realy inflict that much harm on us. Specialy when wraiths and vargulf will kill them just as easy.

 

[Bishop]

Stomp and Thunderstomp also should apply to CR. They are done in the close combat phase, why would they not apply? (again, if you have a pg ref, please provide one).

Yes there are some things that Varghulfs or Wraiths can do better then a Black Coach. But, there are things that the Black Coach will do better as well. They are all choices that we have to make when list building. Wraiths will be the most expensive choice by far (given that you'll probably need 5+ to be effective in most roles).

Varghulfs and Black Coaches are very comparable point-wise. They have different strength. I'd say that neither of them should be charging a steadfast unit!! (unless they are supporting an infantry block)... that's how these should be used.

 

[Bravo_10]

I agree completely with Bishop. Your Black Coach shouldn't be careening into combat against a Steadfast unit, or anything with a lot of static CR for that matter, unless you have a very good reason to do so. They excel as flankers, and against monstrous infantry like ogres they can inflict damage and completely immobilize them as well (provided of course that they're ethereal). I typically don't take one because I like to run magic-heavy, but it's a personal choice. I'm sure that it would perform well if I decided to bring it in a more appropriate army list.

And regarding Impact Hits, I think they almost have to count for CR. Chariots would be literally useless without them, not to mention the Steam Tank. On the charge, the only damage it can actually inflict comes in the form of impact hits (D3 per steam point used to close the gap). If impact hits didn't count towards CR, it would virtually never break anything on the charge, save for a few piddly "grinding down" hits with leftover SP.

 

[Isfimbur]

Yeah, thats basicly what I was saying. Since you can't break anything cause of steadfast you are stuck with a very expensive and unrelieable warmachine/character/monster hunter. Something we have better alternatives for, in my opinion. Yes, its a fun thing to bring sometimes and its cool. I myself field it for that very reason at times. But compaired to waights, blood knights and vargulf it feel a bit "meh".