Black Knights or Blood Knights?

[Count Matthewzilla]

I'm sure this has been asked, maybe more so now since our errata is finally available; however, I plan to run a cav list.

Is the conventional knowledge more in sync with one or the other, and why? I have 7 bloods and 10 blacks so I can run a bus with either, I have noticed everytime I write a list with both I get a no no bad touch response from the board. Why? They take from different places in the list, special vs. rare. Both are strong and viable so, should I be running bloods or blacks or both?

 

[Demian]

Blood Knights are our ultimate death star (I believe). They have the best stats there can be for cavalry, they have a very effective Ward, tons of high strength attacks on the charge and very good Initiative, plus they can march on their own (even if they have been joined by a Wight King, the majority of the unit is vampiric and so they are still able to march, but on this I'm not so sure .O.)

However, they are pricey, their supporting attacks are limited to 1, so having 2 ranks is both Pricey and marginally useful. They are brought back very slowly and have Frenzy, which means they can be redirected as hell.

As it was pointed out by this community, Hexwraiths are a useful combo for these Knights, since they can clear chaff in the Movement Phase, allowing you to give them a better position before declaring charges, next turn. Characters with Magic Resistance 1 or 2 will make them virtually immune to magic damage. Maximizing their frontage is a must, to get more attacks per model, so running them 6 or 7 wide is not a bad idea. A blender Lord in there is overkill, as is a character with the Nightshroud. Vanhel's Danse Macabre is the best buff they can get, since you'll have so few models, you won't be able to break/disrupt units if you don't score kills. Don't forget Nightmares hit hard too, hehe.

Just Blood Knights here.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

They cant march with a king in the unit, are still T4 with one wiund. Way too fragile ino

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

So, they arent worth running then?

 

[rothgar13]

Not really, especially considering they eat up Terrorgheist, I mean Rare, points.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

So, despite being a hard hitting unit as stated above, they are less than competative due to faq, cost ($ and points) compete with Terrorghiests for the slot percentage, and black knights simply do the same job for less and also doen't force you to put all your eggs in one basket.

Thanks. I'm tying to build around the campaign that starts next weekend. I have a cav army back from 7th and I'm trying to get it ready. So, it's also not worth running both in one list either?

 

[Lynks]

I take blood knights relatively frequently and have never been disappointed by them. at 2400+ you can still take them and take your precious terrorghiest if you wish.

 

[fjhamming]

Just bring 4 bloods with flaming banner if you want to run bk as well.. You can still afford a tg then

 

[Niltag]

On last turnament (1k points) I used 5 Blood's with noting more (250 pts for 5 of those) and they killed solo:
- Unit of 30 stormvermins with halbards and electric inside (I front charged them)
- Unit of 50 maruders of Chaos (I back charged them)
- Unit of 3 Demigryphs (I rare charged them)

On low pts they are very easy to kill (they have no banner) so you need to care for them, on higher points i would take 6-7 of them with banner no hero inside, belive me enemy will try to kill/avoid them as much as they can and then rest of your units will smash them if they focus on BK and if they leave your BK they will kill almost eveerything on board.

As mentioned before they work great with hexwrights as they can screen them and kill chaff easy to open charge for them.

As for their frienzy it's not a problem. 7 LD is not bad and if you got general in range testing it is no problem, or you can screen them with hexwrights and you will be not able to make charge untill you like to . Even if they will not pass LD and will have to make that charge I'm 80 % sure they will wipe enemy unit.

I realy like them and try to fit whereever i can and if i take them i can give GG banner of borrows.

As for Black Knights they are nice but I do not like to run buses with 3-4 heros/lords and have all eggs in one basket, so i use them usualy as unit of 8 (4x2) and try to flank charge or kill lighter units. Ethernal movment is realy usefull on them and loosing it is bad idea.

 

[fjhamming]

Biggest problem with bloods is that they cannot win against swordmasters....

 

[Niltag]

Im sure that enemy will have something more then swordmasters, otherwise send bats on them as well with BKs :konrad:

 

[Bounce]

I have always steered away from them in that there is a lot of stuff that can kill them pretty easily and they are ridiculously expensive. Eg. You don't want a terrorist to scream at them. Or have a doom diver land on them or pretty much anything that ignores armour. Too much risk for a competitive list. However i think they are quite fun.

 

[Niltag]

The problem with saving them is only on low points, on higher you can fit in there Flag of Blood Keep and 4++ is realy nice

 

[Demian]

Frenzy's problem is not the Ld test you have to make in order for them not to charge.

It's that they always have to overrun, so if you front charge something, chances are they'll end up far away in the back and you'll waste another turn reforming them and in the next declare a charge. Best use for them is to charge everything in the flank, and hope the overrun will jam them into another combat. If that Unit was not in one, you get to resolve it next turn, and continue to overrun and so on and on... until you wipe everything in their path.

Our characters have the best possible protection against anything ranged while in that unit, and thus having a vampire join it is not a bad idea. Nightshroud seems to serve them well, precisely to avoid ASF troops or higher Ini Dark Elves attack at them before they do, and since you SHOULD always charge their flanks, most return attacks will be affected by our shroud.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

So, they kind of serve a different purpose than the black knights now. They're more of a shock troop while the black knights are better escorts for our lords and ladies.

 

[Gatti]

Well I think bloods make a decent escort if light, metal, or death magic are used against them. Flag of blood keep + obsidian amulet gives the whole unit (chars included) a 2+ ward vs ranged magic. That is pretty hard to beat. I prefer bloods if I know I'm facing a coven of light or dagger death mages for example.

 

[RobTheWise]

I've had mixed results with Bloods, some times they have been my best performers and other times my biggest point sink. The 2+ ward vs magic is nice, but I found in my games so far that they don't get that much attention from magic missiles, which are normally directed at my ethreals Vargiests or TG, and their high Initiative protects them from pit and purple sun. I do find they get shot at a fair bit, so Banner of Blood Keep is still useful.

Pre FAQ I would run them with a level 2 Vampire to keep them alive, but I don't characters are really nessasry for them without that functionality (unless you want a BSB for re-rolling frenzy which can be useful)

I'm currently experimenting with running 5 of them with the +1 movement banner on the flanks.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

I want to use them. I have seven and I'm trying to get them painted for a themed calvary list to take to the campaign this weekend. It's too bad the faq hit them hard like that. Oh, well. Like I said, I can still see them running as a shock unit to smash in and break things. I still think I will need to take my black knights for my three vamp characters though. I'll post up my list in a bit.

 

[Drakhaol Von Carstein]

One of the ways I use the bloodknights is to run a group of 5 hexwraiths with them (usually right behind cause my lord is there as well) the turn I go for a charge I spectral hunter the hexs to be 1" behind my opponent so as to halt any unfavorable overruns as a result of the insane killing power of the Bk's

 

[RobTheWise]

One of the ways I use the bloodknights is to run a group of 5 hexwraiths with them (usually right behind cause my lord is there as well) the turn I go for a charge I spectral hunter the hexs to be 1" behind my opponent so as to halt any unfavorable overruns as a result of the insane killing power of the Bk's

Unfortunately, that's illegal, as the Soulstriders rule only let's Hex Wraiths pass through unengaged enemies.

 

[pehldog63]

I normally run blood knights in my list and they have done very nicely for me. The last game I used them they took out all of my opponent's orc army, including unit of 30 black orcs. My poor blender lord and and his unit of grave guard did not have a chance to join in any of the action. They are fun to play with but I'm getting some tg for tournaments.