Black Periapt - worth it?

[Korpacz]

Having 2 extra power dice every phase seem awesome, then I started thinking about it... they're not free dice, you're taking 2 dice from your previous phase, so you're really taking a hit first to get the bonus.

I'm guessing it's not an auto include. When would you take it, when would you not take it?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

In a no blender list its auto for me

 

[Demian]

Only a Master Necromancer is fit for the Black Periapt, because other Lords won't waste their points to wield it, having much better options.

Now, yes Black Periapt IS a big deal when you want magic supremacy on the table. Casting spells is still unreliable, but it tips the odds in your favor regarding:

- An Enemy has a magic heavy list. You cast your own spells and then, instead of spending the last 2 Power dice, you save them for the dispel game, where you'll need them most.

- An Enemy has a low magic list. This will wreck the enemy's army, because you can cast your own spells and when you need to dispel, you'll almost always manage to save those 2 dice for later use during your own turn. Cast as many of Remains in Play spells as you can here!

- When you or your opponent manages to get IF on his casting. When that happens, you'll most likely end up with very few power dice of your own, making the casting of further spells useless against your enemy's Dispel Dice pool. So save them, even for later use, since you can carry them over from your dispel dice to your power dice (no need to use them to dispel, if it is not critical). Furthermore, if your opponent casts with IF, you won't throw away all your dispel dice pool and manage to salvage 2 of them.

- During the first turn of the game, most armies don't have that many spells to cast, because there are no ideal targets in range. Vampire Counts is one such army! At most you want to cast Invocation of Nehek on zombies, a bubbled Danse Macabre and maybe Gaze of Nagash against skirmishers, but that's it. Those initial 2 dice can be saved for much later use in the game.


All in all, take the Black Periapt when you have a dual-Master Necromancer list (one with Vampires, one with Death) or if you are playing at high points, to pair him with a Ghoul King or Lv1 Vampire Lord. Alternatively, use it along with Heinrich Kemmler for more awesomeness.

I'm sure there are mor comboes with this arcane item out there, these are my own.

 

[Count Vashra]

VS Dwarfs. They have no spells, but you might (emphasis on might convince the player to roll Winds. Then you take your Dispel dice. Of course, unlikely to work. Other option is for when an opponent fluffs their Winds roll and you know they haven't got enough dice ton get through a very dangerous spell. Also a Death caster (or Mannfred), as they will likely regenerate their power pool through the Death Lore Attribute. or even if you have more dice than necessary, e.g. 8 dice on a Level 1. he'll only ever have one spell, and the cap to any casting attempt is 6 dice, so the 7th and 8th dice are wasted.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

A ghoul king fits it in his kit nicely. Just sayin

 

[Korpacz]

I'm trying to build a double level 4 necro list and the build I've been looking at so far is:

Level 4 Vamp Lore
Book of Ashur (+1 cast/+1 dispel)
Talisman of Endurance 5++

Level 4 Vamp Lore
Book of Arkhan
Obsidian Lodestone (4+ MR)

For the longest time I had the black periapt instead of the book of ashur in the list, then I started thinking I need to sacrifice potential in a phase to boost another phase. Plus I would be running this with a mortis engine so I'd have a 7+ to cast on one caster and +6 to cast on the other.

However I think Demian has convinced me to go back to the periapt, it has a greater potential for dominating a phase when needed.

 

[Demian]

You must roll for the winds of magic, even if you cannot / have no wizards. Against dwarves is almost a free +2 Power Dice every time.. although they tend to steal your dice with the runesmiths.

 

[Count Vashra]

Excellent, because I will be playing Dwarfs when I get my army sorted. "Scheming"

 

[Vipoid]

It seems like it should be a good item, but I've had nothing but bad experiences with it on the tabletop.

I think the worst one was when I made the mistake of trying something different and used a Lv4 vampire lord with Master of the Black Arts and Black Periapt. My opponent had a HE Archmage with Book of Hoeth. It basically out-cast me and out-dispelled me in every magic phase - which is rather depressing when I'd spent more than twice as much on magic gear. :swear:

In fact, I believe that was the last game I used either Black Periapt or Master of the Black Arts.


I guess I might use the Periapt when I next use a MN as my general, but only because there's naff-all else to put on one.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Ya know, I like it as a trick!

I mean look at it this way:

1. You are casting away and you get a spell off that they don't try to dispell then at the end of the phase they have 5 dice and you have 2? Just save them since they'll be able to dispell it anyways!
2. Your opponent gets IF and now you have 8 dispell dice and they're phase is done, now all of your dice aren't worthless!

 

[Demian]

Yeah... leave Master of Black Arts to Manny... or when your Daemon ally really really wants thar Reign of Chaos working, haha.

Dark Acolyte on the other hand... should make your invocation party very hard to dispel, even against elves.

 

[Vipoid]

Ya know, I like it as a trick!

I mean look at it this way:

1. You are casting away and you get a spell off that they don't try to dispell then at the end of the phase they have 5 dice and you have 2? Just save them since they'll be able to dispell it anyways!
2. Your opponent gets IF and now you have 8 dispell dice and they're phase is done, now all of your dice aren't worthless!

I know what you mean, but 55pts still seems like quite a lot for a trick. For a lord-only item, I'd rather have something that actually makes my magic/dispel phase better - rather than an item that might let me salvage something from a crap magic phase.

Yeah... leave Master of Black Arts to Manny... or when your Daemon ally really really wants thar Reign of Chaos working, haha.

Dark Acolyte on the other hand... should make your invocation party very hard to dispel, even against elves.

Well, I suppose I could try that.

Unfortunately, every time I consider trying a magic-oriented vampire lord again, my left hand starts hitting me in the face until I agree to use something else. :slapface:

 

[Skittelz1981]

VS Dwarfs. They have no spells, but you might (emphasis on might convince the player to roll Winds. Then you take your Dispel dice. Of course, unlikely to work. Other option is for when an opponent fluffs their Winds roll and you know they haven't got enough dice ton get through a very dangerous spell. Also a Death caster (or Mannfred), as they will likely regenerate their power pool through the Death Lore Attribute. or even if you have more dice than necessary, e.g. 8 dice on a Level 1. he'll only ever have one spell, and the cap to any casting attempt is 6 dice, so the 7th and 8th dice are wasted.

Might? A dwarven player is, by rule, forced to roll for the winds. The winds of magic always happen regardless of the fact that an army might not have any wizards.

Page 29 of BRB, Magic phase starts with both sides determining how much magic power can be tapped in this turn....
To me that means that even if your opponent has no casters, you do, therefore you are the only one tapping but since its his turn, he is the one rolling for the winds.
There is no convincing the dwarfplayer, he must roll for it. At least to my knowledge and understanding of the rules.

 

[Demian]

Yep, there are other items that can suit your dispeling/casting style better than the Black Periapt. Notice that I said style, haha.

Yep, a magic vampire lord is... tricky to use since it doesn't stand as imposing as a blender, but I've been trying to circumvent that by using comboes like the Black Coach with Master of the Black Arts, and having a Master necromancer handle Death casting and only using LoV as backup.

and Yep, there is no need for convincing, just reading the rules like Skittelz says =)

 

[Vipoid]

VS Dwarfs. They have no spells, but you might (emphasis on might convince the player to roll Winds.

Might?

Let's say you're playing a different army, e.g. WoC. They have a single wizard, and you manage to kill him during the game.

In their subsequent magic phases, do you then allow them to forgo rolling winds of magic, since they no longer have a wizard?

 

[Minty]

The Black Periapt is simply five points too expensive. It would be a very good, but not auto-include option if it could be taken by a hero-level wizard, as it is it's just not worth the opportunity cost.

The magic/Necrach themed Vampire Powers are in a worse state by far, though.

 

[Demian]

Yes Vipoid, every turn the Winds of Magic must be rolled, even if you don't have any wizards / bound spells to cast.

In this situation, the enemy's army can Dispel RiP spells, however difficultly.

EDIT: Nevermind! I read it wrong, hahaha... x°x srry Vipoid

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Yeah if a dwarf player does not roll for magic either play no caster daemons or iforce sun. Ge will start playing with magic

 

[Oppenheimer]

I always used to use it but I found I only used it in less than half the magic phases so now I don't bother. The worst is when a miscast uses up your power pool so you can't put anything into the periapt after all.