Hello!
I found this bloodline army list a few days ago, and I was pretty happy: that's what I looked for to play blood dragons on 8th Ed. I tried them yesterday in a 2000 pts battle, and I supposed you would like to have an advice on this list. So here I am!
First of all, I really like this work. I'm going to make a few critics on it, but that's because I think this list can become really cool with a few changes.
So, this intro being over, let's start:
Core units:
It seems that in 8th Edition, Skeletons are a terrible choice. They got quite the same defensive power as ghouls, but they lack offensive abilities. Skeletons veterans don't change that much: +1 WS and +1I isn't usefull against a lot of enemies (I fought dark elves, they don't carry if I got a WS 2 or 3). The halberd make them a little stronger, but they still cost twice the price of a human fighter with the same stats. Being undead is no longer an advantage in 8th Ed. (nor a weakness, just another style), and there's really no point in paying a halberd guy with poor fighting skills 11 points. Other armies get way better units for less points.
The Hardened warrior special rule is strange. I can't imagine what it's supposed to figure. I can't see the link between the supposed fighting skills of blood dragon's skeletons and the game effect. Moreover, skeletons are quite unable to win a fight by themselves, and they are the unit that has the most ranks in the army. That make this special rule of little use, imho.
Having Grave Guards in Core units is pretty cool, but it doesn't change anything at all. I never saw anyone playing VC and lacking of Special points. But that's not a problem. To finish, Dire wolves are as useless as usually, no surprise.
To finish on core units, I'd say that the Blood dragon list is far less powerfull than the VC book, just cause we can't take ghouls. I know skeletons are fluffy in such an army, and I'll recommand to boost them a little. Now, they just are easy point to take, and that's a shame for an army which is supposed to give pain in close combat.
Special units:
Wooo! Blood Knights! Having them in special units is fluffy, and that's a good thing. The limit of one unit per 1000 army points is superfluous ihmo, cause I can't see any efficient army list with 4 blood knights units at 3000 pts (for exemple).
Black knights and Fell bats are classics. 0-1 Spirit Hosts, that's enough for most army lists, and Batswarms are still unusefull, nothing really changes. The good point is having blood knights in this category: it doesn't sound overpowered to me, cause despite their abilities, they got enough weaknesses to avoid a player to spam them in his army list.
Rare units:
As the blood knights now are in Special, the Rare points can be used freely. However, with only two rare units, blood dragons don't give us that much choices.
First, we can use Wraiths. I should say, we can spam them, cause we don't need Rare points for our mounted vampires. Actually, Wraiths are a powerfull unit against a lot of armies, so this is a good option.
On the other hand, Blood Monks, one of the most stylish units I've seen so far. I tried them yesterday, of course, and it appears that they cost too much points for what they do. Their offensive abilities are equal to the blood knights one, they are fast and skirmisher rule let them avoid a lot of threats. Their shooting ability is quite trivial, they deliver much more pain in close combat. But when it comes to fight, or when they're targetted by range attacks, they show their bigger weakness: they die incredibly fast. For the same amount of points, I can have 5 BK with a 2+/4+ ward save against ranged attacks, or 5 BM with their 4+ ward and the -1 for shooting at them: BK are finally more resistant to light shooting and to S3 or 4 attacks, they can have a character with them and a banner. I think that Blood monks are a good idea, but they should cost the same as blood knights, or having 2 wounds. If needed, you could suppress their ranged attack: it seems cool, but they don't use it much, they're far more efficient in close combat. And when they use it, 4 or 5 S5 range attacks don't scare too much the big 8th Edition's units.
To conclude, my opponent said he found the Blood Monks nice, but that Wraiths are more dangerous for the same price, and I have to agree. With Blood dragons' army list, the better use with Rare points is to take a lot of Wraiths: doesn't look great in such an army, and not very funny for the game. If the opponent has a lot of magical weapons, he'll have an esay win. If not, he'll just have to pray.
Heroes and Lords:
Blood Dragons vampires are incredibly strong, for sure. I used a Lord with Master of blades, and he could destroy a unit alone in two turns of close combat. The high WS of vampires, their armour and weapons that don't use magical/vampiric powers points, make them great warriors, even in an edition where troups are usually more powerfull than characters for the same amount of points. A good thing for blood dragons.
However, there are a few problems I noticed:
- they lack magical power. It's not such a problem, cause they're destructive enough in close fight, but in 8th edition magic is very strong, and VC depends on it. It's hard to cast a spell, hard to have enough dices to dispell, and there's no way to increase magical power (periapt excepted, but it doesn't change a magic phase on its own);
- they lack options. Master of blades is indubitably dangerous. So are Unliving legend, Quicksilver and Master strike (red fury is quite good too). The other powers are less interesting, and I fear that all the blood dragon's vampires are going to use only a few powers;
- Retinue rule: I suppose there is an interest, but I can't see it. As I said before, I don't think we can run short in Special points (cause Characters, Core units, and Rares always make at least half the army points), so having a retinue is just a way to prevent our characters for moving freely. Strange deal.
- Challenges: this rule is very fluffy, but it's a nightmare to play. If I understand it well, it means my evil-powerfull-terrible-vampire-of-the-evil-death must challenge each champion in any enemy unit? A unit with a poor champion becomes immune to my general attacks for one turn, and can freely destroy his unit? On his own turn, the opponent can charge the unit, and I have to challenge the new champion while he destroys me with his troops? That doesn't make any sense at all. I was forced to challenge with my skeleton champion to avoid that, or to launch suicide attacks to kill a champion before attacking the unit. Not funny to play, and makes my 455 points general quite unuseful.
Global review:
As a conclusion, I'll say that this bloodline army list is a good basis, but needs a few changes. The good point is that it doesn't seem really unbalanced to me, and that it's full of good ideas (retinue, blood monks, new powers). I'll say two points need our attention:
There are very few ways to play it. Characters can only be close monsters, basis are skeletons. The only choices are the number of knights or GG you'll put, and to use Wraiths or Blood monks. I know it's the V6 spirit, but if I remember well, Blood dragons don't amount in Knights. There are also assassins, fencers, and many other identities. It could be good to have more powers, more options so that we could do many differents, but efficients, characters and armies.
They're not that fun to play on the battlefield for the moment. VC don't use range attacks, that's a fact, but their gameplay is a combination between moves, magic support and close combat, whereas their characters are divided between close combat, magic and support. With blood dragons, magic is strongly restricted, and characters are mostly close combat ones. I had the feeling, while playing them, to advance, charge and throw dices to kill, while using IoN to maintain my characters alive. No shooting phase, very few support powers and magic, I don't think I'll could play it for long. Moreover, I had to find ugly stratagems to avoid the horrible challenges rules and to make something with my underpowered core units.
One more time, please don't think I didn't like your work: I used it, and I took time to register here and make this long report, isn't that a proof? Your base work seems very interesting, I just think it can become even better :cool:
Of course, all I said is only my opinion and the results of my tests, but I hope it can help you!
Caleb as VC player