Blood Knight Deathstar?

[Vampire Count]

The Black Knight deathstar is a powerful build, but has anyone tried a Blood Knight death star? It's basically going all out, plus you can get the 4+ ward on the unit which makes them more resilient vs war machines which may target the Black Knight bus and render it ineffective... It's a LOT of points, but could it be worth it? Vampire Lord, one or two Vampires, and a WK maybe, and 8-10 Blood Knights?

 

[Oxylepy]

I believe part of the BK-Deathstar is that they can be brought back, while a Blood Knight version would require 2-5 casters to accomplish the same number of restored wounds in a turn. In return for twice the cost of a Black Knight you get, at best, a +1 to hit, a +1 to wound against anything with a toughness 4 or greater and one extra attack. Not worth it from my perspective, especially when you consider that it's an even bigger target than before considering many people's irrational... well okay maybe pretty justified, hatred of Blood Knights. That said, I can't imagine a reason to have such a large unit, unless you're planning it to be 2 rows of 6.

 

[Count Lasombra]

More than one row of bloodknights is an enormous waste of points,compounded by the fact that you lose much of their hitting power in the front row by displacement.
The BK bus is essentially a character delivery system,if dire wolves were cavalry you would see alot of wolf buses.

 

[rothgar13]

Nope, not worth it. You're wasting most of the Blood Knights' formidable damage potential by putting any of them in the second rank, and taking Blood Knights means you're not taking Terrorgheists, which are an integral part of the Cavalry Star build as well.

 

[Xivigg]

Blood knight don't need character to help them. They are strong all by themselves !

 

[Drakhaol Von Carstein]

I'm in the minority, but I find blood knight bus's with character support to be nearly unstoppable and great at point denial. My recent lists include vargheists and terrorgheists as supports and saturation. Gone undefeated agaisnt high elves, skaven, and lizardmen with my list.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

I'm in the minority, but I find blood knight bus's with character support to be nearly unstoppable and great at point denial. My recent lists include vargheists and terrorgheists as supports and saturation. Gone undefeated agaisnt high elves, skaven, and lizardmen with my list.

Fitting a TG in that list...how many blood knights did you run, exactly? And how many points is the list? It would be cool to run a Black knight star with blood knights on the other flank with maybe a thrall with the blood knights. -however, I brought this up in the Black Knight deathstar thread, and most people agreed that TGs were better served in the rare slot. Not saying that I wouldn't attempt something so devious for a fun list :konrad:

The thought of a cavalry star and also blood knights with a hero would give a lot of opponents pause, but Blood knights are so darn expensive, two TGs could clear out half of an army!!

The healing of Black Knights, plus characters to kill in combat....and then dual TGs flying around is more than enough to have your opponents pulling their hair out. Even if they were confident enough to face the Star, you can scream into the combat, and completely ruin their hopes of pulling through.

 

[hairyjeff]

The Bloodknight deathstar is great, BUT isn't viable at less than 4-5000 points. Even then, it's a lot of points and crossed fingers.One mistake in deployment can munch them.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Challenge excepted.... Expect some battle reports

 

[rothgar13]

Point denial? When one Doom Diver basically pops half the unit, and a cannon flank shot wipes it altogether more often than not? Maybe if you're only fighting CC armies composed of elites, but certainly untrue by and large. And even then, White Lions strike me as their worst nightmare made manifest - a unit that annihilates them before they get to swing, with plenty of redirectors (Eagles!) to exploit that Frenzy.

Also, how on earth did Skaven not Doomwheel/WLC them out of existence? I guess bad rolls do happen sometimes.

 

[Tamodan Varison]

That's indeed the biggest kicker... Frenzy. E-ve-ry decent player will stop your 1500 point unit from killing more than 400 points of their own. Running a unit like this only tests your enemy's tactical skills, not your own

 

[Yorga]

Challenge excepted.... Expect some battle reports

Oh cool! Please wait until you play me at SAWS so that I can win and get revenge for the last time we played. :tongue:

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

If anyone can make it work, Johnny can.

 

[Bounce]

To me it would make sense to take 2 units instead so you get to make the full use out of their attacks.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

Blood knights are pretty strong, I could see this being fun, but maybe not fiercely competitive. Two blood units? How about a Vamp thrall in each unit :devil2: Lead your army with the lord. Then everyone marches and you have two good cav units and the Lord can pull the weight of his own unit as well. Add in black knights with WK if points allow and throw in some wolves- sounds like a cool theme. Again probably too many points on cavalry, but still.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I am thinking 8 with a Lord and BSB run 6 wide and go 10 wide against hordes

 

[Gaze-bo]

Maybe if you onle get like 4 of them and then a hero and a lord so everyone can strike. As soon as it gets into a supporting rank it's such a waste of points. But if you only have 4 I doubt they would survive much canons & magic. That and if your up against something with high str the hero and lord could crumble if your dices betray you. I vote against this as well.

 

[The Sun King]

If you want to make an elite knight bus play Brets 15 Grail knights with a Lord and two Paladins in front rank is utterly devastating and with 6 ranks they will break those pesky steadfast slaves

 

[rothgar13]

You can't even have 15 Grail Knights in a unit. Their max unit size is 12.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Damn Rothy beating me to the punch. And it is not a waste of points it is excess wounds which is needed for any character star. Also only having 4 does not a LOS make.

 

[rothgar13]

I think Gaze-bo is not accounting for how Lance formation works on the charge. Even that 15-Knight monstrosity that The Sun King is describing (12 Grail Knights + 3 characters) only has 3 guys not attacking.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

I think Gaze-bo is not accounting for how Lance formation works on the charge. Even that 15-Knight monstrosity that The Sun King is describing (12 Grail Knights + 3 characters) only has 3 guys not attacking.

This is only for Brets though, correct? We can't get rank bonuses and more than one rank of supporting attacks if we attempt "Lance Formation" with our knights, can we?

 

[Gaze-bo]

I think Gaze-bo is not accounting for how Lance formation works on the charge. Even that 15-Knight monstrosity that The Sun King is describing (12 Grail Knights + 3 characters) only has 3 guys not attacking.

I don't know much about Brettonia but it sounds great, however I was talking about Blood Knights.

 

[rothgar13]

Ah, my bad.

@Bloodbath: Yep, only Bret Knights, which is part of the reason why even though Empire has spammable 1+ saves, they still have the best (non-Monstrous) Cavalry selection, though some of the prices could do with some updating (and Questing Knights have to be rethought, frankly).

 

[Gatti]

I have run the blood bus a few times. I won all my games. (So not only Johnny can make it work ).

One of which I beat Furion's ETC list with an ETC legal blood bus (old ETC comp, not the most recent draft). While it is comped, mine was comped too, and Furion's list did win ETC singles, so it isn't a soft list by any stretch. Basically, I wiped the lion horde, killed a few other units, and my bloods and characters stayed alive. I ended up winning 12-8, which isn't bad considering a HE list with a lion horde is probably the worst match-up possible for this list in particular.

My list went something like:

Vampire Lord
-4+ ward
-2+ armor save
-Hellsteed
- Ogre Blade **EDIT** Whoops, only had lance. Not enough points for the blade.
- Book of Arkhan
-LV 4
-Red Fury

Vampire
-L2 (shadow)
-Hellsteed
-Red Fury
-2+ armor
-Dawnstone
-Obsidian amulet (MR2)

Some mix of Skellies and Zombies.

-3x 5 dire wolves

2x5 hexwraiths

1x 6 hexwraiths

2 bat swarms

7 Blood Knights
-M, St
-Banner of Blood keep

Basically, the entire army was designed around ensuring the bloods got to combat. The hexraiths are there because of their ability to clear chaff during the movement phase, allowing me to move the bloods after blocking chaff is cleared. This limits the ability to block them and really is key IMO to making sure this list works. Swarms are there to ensure I swing first against things with ASF or I5 or I6. Miasma is there for the same reason against I5+, as redundancy is key (if swarms don't make charge or are eliminated, I can cast miasma).

Arkhan is there both for the movement ability (with recent FAQ and hexwraith second drive by) and to get re rolls to hit on the bus, which is huge. As I have a LV 4 vampiric lore caster, I likely will get 2x vanhels with this item, so being able to cast it twice makes it much more difficult to stop the spell if I really want it to go off. Also, as one vanhels cast comes from a bound item, I am not afraid of just throwing max dice at the bound item before a key combat, as a 6-6 just burns out the item and doesn't risk my lord.

Obsidian is there to give the blood and characters 2+ wards vs light, death, and metal magic which are really common lores, particularly in ETC. I threw my characters on hellsteeds for late in the game cleanup. After the bus hits its main target I have the option to split characters and bloods to handle whatever is left.

All in all its a great list, but it handles like you expect a deathstar list to handle. If the bus survives and gets to combat, you probably win. Otherwise, you probably lose. I went 5-0 with it so far, and probably will bring it out more. Next time I use it I will post a BR.