Blood Knights?

[rothgar13]

I play High Elves and Dwarves a lot and so rarely take them.
I find that against high elves they are nearly useless because they cannot charge swormaster/whitelions because they die before striking. against dwarves they got shot to pieces even with flag of blood keep. If I put them on the flank then bolt throwers/cannons can hit their flank and then.... poof goes the unit (about 1/3 of the time).

Any tips on how to use them against the above mentioned armies?

You have M7. They have M5 or M3. Run around them and hit them in the flank while another unit holds the front (preferably something that will hold well enough so that you don't have to cause a bajillion wounds to overcome CR).

As for Dwarf artillery... bring another threatening unit is the best you can really do. Good luck affording it, a Vamp Lord, and some Blood Knights in the same army, though.

Going off topic again... I'm very "meh" about those Mantic Blood Knights. The new GW Black Knights look beefier than them, and that's saying something.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

GW Blood Knight models are great.
Easily the best Knights in the game. (Not including monstrous cav of course)

They look good and hit hard, just the points cost and crumble stings, they made them immune to crumble and people would not think twice about taking them.

After all Vampires and strong undead don't crumble.
Did Krell die when Nagash did again?..... No, He rampaged through the Dwarf lines with his GG and destroyed everything in his path marching across the country.

 

[Yorga]

I play High Elves and Dwarves a lot and so rarely take them.
I find that against high elves they are nearly useless because they cannot charge swormaster/whitelions because they die before striking. against dwarves they got shot to pieces even with flag of blood keep. If I put them on the flank then bolt throwers/cannons can hit their flank and then.... poof goes the unit (about 1/3 of the time).

Any tips on how to use them against the above mentioned armies?

Bat swarms. Run the swarm on the flank of the Blood Knights. This should prevent flanking bolt thrower shots from killing the knights because if it hits the swarm first it must destroy the whole stand or else it does not continue. That is 10 wounds. How could a single bolt thrower shooting from the flank do that?

Against Dwarves you need to suck it up and try to hide the Blood Knights until his shooters are engaged.

Then when you fight against the elves in melee, they lose ASF and attack at init order which will still be first against our init 5 but will not have those precious re-rolls. You armor should absorb enough.

Yep, swarms are the way to go because they can pretty much stay up with the Blood Knights if you choose not to march more than 10 inches.

 

[Tim]

Why not just use the mantic miniture ones? You even get a vamp lord in the box.

They are kind of ugly?
The GW Blood Knights are very pretty miniatures, if you only want to play the game and don't give much about esthetics mantics are fine, unless you want to play in GW stores and events, they usually wont allow it.

 

[Shadow14_8]

I always wanted to try the BKs but find the cost horrible. I have nearly everything else though.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Just suck it up some day and pay for them, you feel happy just looking at them.

 

[rothgar13]

Looks aren't enough for me. I want performance out of my units. It's tough enough to win games without handicapping yourself by taking units based on how they LOOK.

 

[Yorga]

In 7th edition they were almost broken. But with the advent of steadfast they are very limited in use. Monster killers...other elite small units maybe. Good on the flank but then so much other stuff is as well.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

As long as you're not silly with them (front-charging into hordes or something stupid) they can still be game-breakers; going along the flank into combats you've already committed to with weak skeletons, and systematically winning each combat one at a time, systematically running each unit down then engaging the next unit.

They are also damn awesome models.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Nope they are still undead and still crumble. and each point of crumble costs 50+ points.

Sorry for the double-post, but this is incorrect. They lose wounds due to Unstable if they lose combat (they are BK...they should never, ever, ever lose combat!) but if the general dies they do *not* crumble, as they are vampiric.

 

[El Syf]

I love Blood Knights, but playing mostly against dwarves have had them shot to pieces quite a lot. What I do now is have them on the flank my lord (with 14 black knights) in the centre and a big GG unit on the other flank. They can't shoot everything! Also what's with the Kastellan hate? Mine's never let me down yet.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Looks aren't enough for me. I want performance out of my units. It's tough enough to win games without handicapping yourself by taking units based on how they LOOK.

I did not say take things because they looked cool, I said buy them as they are better than any convert for them I have ever seen.

They still die through combat rez which is stupid.
Now and then you may get unlucky and lose combat by 1 or 2.
Theres 100 points gone.

 

[Alark]

Would a unit of 10 not make sure they dont lose CR?

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Would a unit of 10 not make sure they dont lose CR?

It would.

However it would be shot by every single model on the board, targeted with every single spell your opponent possesses, and become the most popular unit in the shooting and magic phases.

Once you get to the combat phase, however, your Blood Knights will not be so popular, and your opponent will avoid them like the plague. If there's still any of them left, that is.

 

[rothgar13]

Looks aren't enough for me. I want performance out of my units. It's tough enough to win games without handicapping yourself by taking units based on how they LOOK.

I did not say take things because they looked cool, I said buy them as they are better than any convert for them I have ever seen.

They still die through combat rez which is stupid.
Now and then you may get unlucky and lose combat by 1 or 2.
Theres 100 points gone.

Fair enough, though they still are quite a bit pricey. And the worst part about losing a combat with BK's is that their Frenzy goes down the tubes as well, which stinks.

 

[Yorga]

Also what's with the Kastellan hate? Mine's never let me down yet.

I suppose if you are going to use Blood Knights it is a wise investment to buy the Kastellen. They only get one wound back per successful casting of IoN and it will be him if he previously died (again).

Would a unit of 10 not make sure they dont lose CR?

It would.

However it would be shot by every single model on the board, targeted with every single spell your opponent possesses, and become the most popular unit in the shooting and magic phases.

Once you get to the combat phase, however, your Blood Knights will not be so popular, and your opponent will avoid them like the plague. If there's still any of them left, that is.

See, this is the main issue. 500+ points paints a huge target on them. This will make them as valueable as your general or more point wise. Therefore you opponent will bring everything shooting and magic to bear upon them. The loss of this unit may very well mean the game for you. They WILL shoot you and magic the crap out of you and most every good player has redirectors which should keep these frenzied lunatics from hurting anything too valueable on the enemy side. Take that 575 points or so and spend it on a variety of other units that can bring pain to the enemy. Versatility. Moreover, your opponent wouldn't be able to concentrate fire.

In summary, 5 Blood Knights as an elite flanking force may prove very effective. A block of ten is too much of a good thing here. It looses it's versatility.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

GW is pricey full stop.
At least I found a GW Bat swarm substitute which looks good and costs less that £8 for 2. (if you don't mind a bit sawing)

 

[Alark]

Off topic.

GW is pricey full stop.
At least I found a GW Bat swarm substitute which looks good and costs less that £8 for 2. (if you don't mind a bit sawing)

Please give link!!

I need bat swarms but refuse to pay that much.

Fel bats are the worst, $50 for 3..

 

[Yorga]

Off topic.

GW is pricey full stop.
At least I found a GW Bat swarm substitute which looks good and costs less that £8 for 2. (if you don't mind a bit sawing)

Please give link!!

I need bat swarms but refuse to pay that much.

Fel bats are the worst, $50 for 3..

I like these. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1500582a

Only $13.25 USD each.

 

[Alark]

Off topic.

GW is pricey full stop.
At least I found a GW Bat swarm substitute which looks good and costs less that £8 for 2. (if you don't mind a bit sawing)

Please give link!!

I need bat swarms but refuse to pay that much.

Fel bats are the worst, $50 for 3..

I like these. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1500582a

Only $13.25 USD each.

They look really nice to haha, better than the actual VC ones lol. Cheers. now just to find alternative fel bats.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Bat Swarms

Ok that is the link you want.
You will have to cut the bats into two but its easily done.

Well here for the bat swarms its £15 for 2 so.
£7.70 for 2 which look a damn sight better and you get a spare model to do whatever with.

I am not as keep on the giant bats.
Sure they are decent but to big for bat swarms and only get 1




So back on topic, do you think you will try and spring for the real thing then Johnny?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Reaper has bat swarms for $5 a pop....

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

But thats about the same amount and then you can't use them in a GW store or location.

 

[The_Peacemaker]

Also what's with the Kastellan hate? Mine's never let me down yet.

I suppose if you are going to use Blood Knights it is a wise investment to buy the Kastellen. They only get one wound back per successful casting of IoN and it will be him if he previously died (again).

The 1 guy back from Inocation of Nehek is VERY debateable. I paly it exactly how its written. Squad gets Caster Level +1 wounds, Model only gets 1. So essentially the varghiests only get 1 wound per casting.

Its pointless to argue this here, theres a thread in the Laws of the night section and I believe the consenses is that the rule is so poorly written that you can not determine the 'rules as intended' part either.
With the high points cost of the knights it does not seem broken to be able to regen 2-5 blood knights. Especially against certain enemies - dwarves, empire.

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So far I've run an 8man squad with vampire BSB. I had FC with war banner. I was playing against VC so the blood keep banner would not have been very good.

I'll probably run them in 5 or 6 strong in future games. Still unsure about putting a Kastellan in the squad.
Reason for this is that the champion is last to die. A 5 man knight squad can regularily get whittled down to one man and then you can invocation of nehek them back. But now your banner is gone forever!

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The blood knight models from GW are the single most overpriced thing they have. 5 solid finecast models for that insane price. No extra bitz, no different poses, no options, no nothing!
I've seen the chaos knights + HE dragon princes conversions and they are very awesome. And I do not like my horses wild west pose. Throw a cowboy hat on your vampires and you can sell tickets to your games night rodeo stampeede!

For conversions Chaos knights and dragon princes are the best kit bash options if you want to make them look like the current blood knights. Instead of dragon princes you can also go bitz hunting for any kind of winged armour - dark elf corsairs or cold ones knights, grave guard and black knights.

Bretonnian conversions are an option but alot more difficult. Old plastic brets need alot of tiny detail work, typically with greenstuff, and a good paint job or they just look like bretonnians instead of vampire bretonnians.

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Also wanted to mention a tactic against cannonballs.
Make sure your playing with some terrain on the table! Obsticles stop cannon balls and are then removed. Cannonballs also can't go through buildings. When you move the bloodknights up make sure there is an obsticle between you and the cannon on the other side of the table. When your opponent shoots, does all the stuff for the cannonball stuff you calmly tell him the cannon has hit the obsticle and has stopped. Then he will squint his eyes, smush his lips together, let out a fast sigh, and then lightly utter a profanity.

If its a Bolt Thrower you just have to point at the obsticle and say "soft cover, minus one to hit" - make sure to repeat this several times before, during, and after he has rolled the dice.

If your shooty opponent is trying to force you to walk through NoMan's land then simply tell him your army retreats and is moving around his army to attack the unprotected villiages.