Blood Knights

[Onikaigo]

As stated in a 'Black Knight' thread somewhere else on this forum, I flat out refuse to run Blood Knights. I just won't do it. I can't stand them, at all. Aesthetically, game play wise, and etc etc.

My personal opinion, of course. Black knights in my eyes are so much better. Ethereal movement for the win.

I won't repeat everything I said in the other thread, I'll find it sometime and re read over it to make sure I said everything I needed to.

 

[Hermit]

Everyone has their own thing, I can't stand playing a raise army. Which brings me in some tough battles if I play under 2000 points.

I do really need my zombie dragon lord if I play with my knights, also a second rare choice is really helpfull. Everyone can understand that if you put a frenzied unit all alone that its not going to do anything.

Black knights VS Blood knights. Well, everyone their own choice. Fluffwise i'd rather field blood knights but black knights are a good unit aswell.

Its all what you want to play, you chose an army for a reason with a style that fits you.

 

[slayer666]

I think another good feature that comes with running Blood Knights is that opponents will put a lot of focus on that one unit. And if you have 1 or 2 other decent combat units then you can use the fact that they're so focused on the Blood Knights to your advantage. Sometimes people get so caught up trying to stop 1 unit they forget about the others.

 

[Hermit]

And thats how my dragon lord rampages through armies.

 

[Jnr]

I mainly play them because I like the fluff about it and playing with frenzyd knights is a challenge when facing decent opponents.

So I would say that VC player have much better choises the blood knights but if you like them you should give them a try.

 

[adrift]

Heh - yeah...I like that! I bring blood knights for the challenge of using them versus decent opponents. lol

Me, too! Me, too! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :thumb:

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Um...yeah! That's what I do too, for the challenge! Great excuse....ah I mean valid reason

 

[adrift]

Even better than the way blood knights rip through virtually ANY unit out there is how cheesed off the chaos players were when vampires were given better heavy cav than them. lol Life (or undeath) is good.

:devil2:

 

[Undying]

Does any other unit (except GG) have the ability to kill 15 temple guard in one turn, (no) so there wicked if you use them properly

 

[Campbellstein]

As an anicdotal but true story, I once, on the first turn, gaze of nagashed a unit of 5 warhounds in from of mate's large super expensive nurgle chaos knights with lord and BSB is there. They proceeded to fail thier panic roll, even with the re-roll, and then rolled high enough to run off the table. This affectly meant I had won the battle. Was it likely? No. Was I playing for this to happen? No. The point is it CAN happen to any unit,

Not technically true, pretty sure bloodknights wont panic, being immune to psychology. But i definately see your point, 1 freakish roll on your 500-1000pt unit can hurt a lot.

I use them in 2 lists, one is an all combat list where they are tooled up like crazy with vamp lord, and supported by loads of black knights and dogs (and a few zombies)

I also use them a a stripped down 5 man unit, supported by a stripped down black knight unit, in my overly magical army. I have yet to field the first option as WYSIWYG, but have done count as with some empire models and it was awesome fun, especially as my opponent had planned on a slow trudging undead horde, rather than a roll up the flank cavalry charge.

bloodknights are crazy, but can go wrong, if you want something reliable, playing a game based on dice is probably not right for you, so if you like them, to hell with the points and take them.

---

on another note, is there a maximum number of characters you can put in a single unit, for example if you wanted a super deathstar - roleplay game inspired unit

Tank - ultradefensive vampire to suck up bad challenges
Healer - magic heavy vamp with blood drinker
DPS - tooled up combat lord
DPS - wight lord with axe to overkill champions
Buff bot - BSB with drakenhoff

+4 blood knights


would be a ton of points (got it up above 2000pts yesterday) out of a 3000pt+ army

 

[bob the bone]

I love blood knights all you have to do is put them on the flanks and you kill everything :Vampire1:

 

[Aegis]

Does any other unit (except GG) have the ability to kill 15 temple guard in one turn, (no) so there wicked if you use them properly

Tzeentch Sorcerer, or the Slaan in the temple guard miscasting and rolling snake eyes will too ( that one happened to a friend of mine first game he used the new lizard book and a cheesed out slaan. His first turn. HA!)

 

[TheNosferatu]

As others have said, they're more flexible than they're given credit for. For smaller games or those not keen on deathstar units (myself included) you can have a bare-bones unit of 5 with a standard for 295 points and still feel pretty confident they will mow through anything they meet or if you fancy you can have a larger unit with a Vamp and a magic banner or two.

Personally, if only for the psychological effect they have on you opposing generals, I love have them on the battlefield. Add in the fact that used as an afforementioned 'bare-bones' unit they're incredibly effective in 2250 point games I love using them.

And as far as I'm concerned they're also among the best looking models in the army!

 

[TMS]

Whenever I use them I go the minimalist route that Nosferatu mentions, although I usually shy away from giving them a banner, again to keep their victory points down. They're quite the battering ram even in this "neutered" state, and not costly enough to limit other parts of the list.

 

[TheNosferatu]

Whenever I use them I go the minimalist route that Nosferatu mentions, although I usually shy away from giving them a banner, again to keep their victory points down. They're quite the battering ram even in this "neutered" state, and not costly enough to limit other parts of the list.

Precisely. You just need to be clear on how you wish to use them. In their "neutered" state (I'm not sure opponents will agree they've been "neutered"!) they are most definitely a hammer unit.

They will not survive in long drawn out combats, so avoid using them head on against units which are unbreakable. Likewise, I would avoid enemy units which have a high static CR. But other than that, on the charge you can be pretty sure those 5 Knights are going to do somewhere in the region of 9-12 wounds on most units (note occasional rubber lances are definitely possible with a unit this small and without any magical assistance but that shouldn't be a regular issue). Basically with that kind of damage output I'd feel fairly confident charging anything with a static CR below 5.

Of course the dual purpose of hammer units (besides rolling up smaller flanking units) is to decisively finish larger enemy units with a flank charge while said unit is fighting one of your 'anvil' units (big block of Skellies, Zombies or Ghouls). Again, used in this manner these 5 bare-bones Blood Knights will be practically unstoppable and in this role are actually very good at disposing of unbreakable units because of their damage output. Thereby freeing up both your Blood Knights and your large anvil unit before this presumably important enemy unit has a chance to really create a tarpit.

So in summary, no Blood Knights are not an auto-win, fire and forget type unit. If you're looking for that go play Chaos. However with their speed and damage output they can do a job for our armies better than anything else on our lists and better than almost any other 'hammer' unit in the game.

 

[Swissdictator]

I'm more of a fan of Black Knights. They're cheaper, more maneuverable, and still very deadly.

I give them the Royal Standard of Strigos to make sure they get the hits. With lances + the fact they have killing blow they're still very deadly. They don't have the utter brutality of the blood knights, but they are easier to control, and... are sometimes under estimated.

You can't use black knights to directly hit the front of an enemy. However, if you hit them in the flank Black Knights can do quite a bit of damage. Especially supporting an infantry unit that brings the soft res.

Also, if a good round of shooting or magic takes the unit out (not hard with some of those skaven weapons), you're out on a lot less points. Plus, you depend on them a lot less, making your tactics quite a bit more flexible.

You can also take 2 units of Black Knights for around the same price, and have added flexibility that way. It also keeps your rare slots free allowing for wraiths and/or vhargulfs.

I would say Blood Knights are just too expensive until at least 2500 points, maybe even 3k.

 

[Danceman]

Swissdictator makes a very good case here. Black Knight with RBoS will hit hard, is far more mobile. Hatred extends to the mounts so there will be alot of extra hits and through the years old playing I've learnt never to underestimate the steeds ability to sometimes even outperform the knights that ride them. If then put a Wight BSB with them, or even leaving the BSB at home, it becomes very killy. Putting the Hell Vigour on the unit and RBoS on BSB makes for a very fast and deadly combination. Eliminating the need of a vampire babysitter for march moves is a real blessing.

Unsupringly I favour the Wights over the vampire knights but that said I fielded them on occasion. I am just not very impressed by their performance and give the armies I face it is very hard to keep them 'alive'.

 

[TheNosferatu]

As Swiss observes, Blood Knights and Black Knights perform different tasks within an army. In the interests of staying impartial saying they're "too expensive" seems rather subjective. He's simply found other units that perform different roles which fit better within his lists.

Comparing Blood Knights and Black Knights is like comparing a caster Lord and a combat Lord.

 

[Danceman]

Very true but I think I would say it is more Combat Lord VS a Hybrid/support Vampire rather than Caster Vampire. Black Knights in a decent numbers does fill the role of a potent hammer(especially with a wight hero in it). While the Blood knights are a real sledgehammer, a black knight unit can fill this role admirably as well but again the blood knights charge will truly be bonecrushing.

I wouldn't say Blood knights are useless, far from it, they're just not my cup of tea.