If your BSB declines a challange he no longer gives out his leadership but does he still grant rerolls? I know him fleeing stops his leadership rerolls cause, as the brb says, noone takes heart from a coward. Declining a challenge is just as chicken as running away imo so how about it?
BSB and Challenges
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RE: BSB and Challanges
Goodness, it would seem the rules for being a Sneaky Chicken have changed since 7ed. WFB p.102:
"the model's Leadership cannot be used for any Ld tests that take place that turn..."
There are no other restrictions on the refusing model, so they get all other bonuses, including BSB re-rolls. Obviously in the heat of battle the loyal troops do not notice that the banner is quivering slightly...
EDIT: Coyote: Do you have a page reference to state otherwise?
Goodness, it would seem the rules for being a Sneaky Chicken have changed since 7ed. WFB p.102:
"the model's Leadership cannot be used for any Ld tests that take place that turn..."
There are no other restrictions on the refusing model, so they get all other bonuses, including BSB re-rolls. Obviously in the heat of battle the loyal troops do not notice that the banner is quivering slightly...
EDIT: Coyote: Do you have a page reference to state otherwise?
TobinRoss89
Wight King
RE: BSB and Challanges
Fleeing is carefully defined, and either happens after a failed Panic check, or as a charge reaction.
Cowering from a slavering death machine is simply good sense, and such wit should be advertised from the back of the unit.
Coyote said:
Fleeing is carefully defined, and either happens after a failed Panic check, or as a charge reaction.
Cowering from a slavering death machine is simply good sense, and such wit should be advertised from the back of the unit.
So wait, that would imply that your unit's Standard Bearer would die as a result of choosing to feign flight in reaction to a charge... surely that can't be right? It seems a little off to me. I can understand if they flee after being in combat, but surely this would be a huge detriment to standard bearers in, say, fast cavalry units.
He only dies if you break from close combat, this is the only way a standard bearer or battle standard bearer dies. Not just when fleeing (p 94 BRB)
EDIT: He can die if he's the last model except the champion
EDIT: He can die if he's the last model except the champion
The order for removal of the command group is pretty specific in the BRB. I don't I have the book right now, but I thought the order was musician, champion, standard.
Am I wrong?
Am I wrong?
Actually its musician, standard, champion, although thats only for combat purposes, and he can still be removed for other purposes, like fleeing, or say, an Empire Long Rifle thingy chooses to target him.
Standard can't be targetted. Another RnF picks the standard up, the same as they would those musty bagpipes. The unit champion, on the other hand, can be picked out.
FYI - Over at Asrai.org, the WE are discussing the idea of doing this with Caster Lords & Generals. So, not only do we need to consider Ogre BSBs in the 2nd rank, but also WE Lifelords in the 2nd rank of Glade Guards.
Can we leverage this to our own benefit? Perhaps by resurrecting the Deathstar?
Can we leverage this to our own benefit? Perhaps by resurrecting the Deathstar?
Coyote said:
30 BK's (10x3) with Banner of the Barrows, and Vampires and Vampire Lords making up the front rank, anyone? Of course, a battle standard in there, with none other than the Hasselhoff/Drakenhoff Banner (or w/e its actually called), anyone?
My point in referencing the WE thread is that we could use the example of a Caster Lord in a 10 model unit of Skeles. If the Skeles have FC, and form up 3 wide, the Lord is forced to the 2nd row. But, it appears that the rules changes in 8th not only allow us to continue using the Lord's Ld, but also to have him draw LoS through the 1st rank. The only thing that this really interferes with are template spells, such as the Pendulum. This tactic would normally risk the Lord being subject to Panic/Break, but we're Unbreakable.
Expect to see Ogres, Goblins, DE, and anything else that uses bunker units to adopt this tactic.
Expect to see Ogres, Goblins, DE, and anything else that uses bunker units to adopt this tactic.
Sukhmet
Zombie
In 8e, the command group has to be in the front rank. Add two characters, and any additional characters HAVE to be in the second rank (in a five wide unit). There is nothing in the BRB that prevents a BSB being in the second rank in this way and still exercising all of his/her/it's abilities. This came up at SAWS and I believe that it went all the way to Direwolf, and was okayed as cheezy, but legit. So, bunker mr Drakenhof in the seond rank of the GG, and he /she/it can't be touched by challenges.
Coyote said:
Post number 1 in the Dirty Tactics thread!
As for dropping the standard when fleeing. I can only find rules for standards being taken out under the Last Stand rules on BRBp94 and COMMAND GROUP CASUALTIES SUMMARY on BRBp95.
In neither of those sets of rules is the standard dropped due to Fleeing, only Breaking.
Is there another page I'm missing, or can you still flee and maintain at least the image of honour?
No, you're not missing anything, Standard Bearers (including BSBs) die if their unit fails its break test. Panic & such do not cause the standard to be dropped, nor the bearer killed. There is a reminder on p.107 under the BSB rules.
A small side question, so does that mean if a unit breaks from combat, they suffer an additional wound as the standard bearer is killed?