Hey all if ya don't already no I'm a new fangling to VC and I also play Ogres a bsb is pretty much mandatory in ogres due to LD problems in our book , but reading over the counts iv seen everything is pretty much in breakable and no break tests are needed so I was thinking why a bsb then I saw the crumbling issue if things go pear shaped if our general go's down when crumbling can you Yous the bsb to re-roll crumble if the crumble test is bad such as rolling two 6's for the test just thought being a LD test you could re-roll or is this just wishful thinking?
BsB needed for VC
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NicholasLeMort
Skeleton
Welcome to the dark side! (We have cookies)
As you have correctly noticed, every single unit in our army book is Unbreakable (though Unstable), and also Immune to Psychology. This means we will never have to take Ld-tests for petty things like breaking, fear/terror, panic, ... The BSB is as such not very useful for its rerolling capabilities (only rerolling failed Swift Reform tests I believe, and maybe March Block tests?). It does however reduce crumble by 1, though that is pretty much useless in most cases.
There is still some merit in taking a BSB though, especially for taking a magic banner, but personally I don't take one.
Have fun with the VC! (And don't go too near to DoN...)
As you have correctly noticed, every single unit in our army book is Unbreakable (though Unstable), and also Immune to Psychology. This means we will never have to take Ld-tests for petty things like breaking, fear/terror, panic, ... The BSB is as such not very useful for its rerolling capabilities (only rerolling failed Swift Reform tests I believe, and maybe March Block tests?). It does however reduce crumble by 1, though that is pretty much useless in most cases.
There is still some merit in taking a BSB though, especially for taking a magic banner, but personally I don't take one.
Have fun with the VC! (And don't go too near to DoN...)
Hey and welcome, dude.
I'm sorry to say and I really mean no personal offence but I love that everyone on this forum keeps their posts in a grammatical good shape. Unfortunately reading your post is a pain. I'm not a native speaker but like many others I try my best to write understandable texts. So please use punctuation and spell check. It will make it a lot easier to read and will make people take it more serious.
I'm sorry to say and I really mean no personal offence but I love that everyone on this forum keeps their posts in a grammatical good shape. Unfortunately reading your post is a pain. I'm not a native speaker but like many others I try my best to write understandable texts. So please use punctuation and spell check. It will make it a lot easier to read and will make people take it more serious.
BSB is certainly not needed, but can be useful if you can fit it in for that odd re-rollable LD check for a swirft reform, etc. Also, it's an additional +1CR, and -1 for crumble, which can be very big in an army compromised of multiple Monsters / Engines, and the BK Bus.
In an infantry list, it is less of a requirement.
- Larry
In an infantry list, it is less of a requirement.
- Larry
Bsb i think is great for most vampire lists. Saving two models whenever you lose combat can make a big difference particularly if you are in a unit of blood knights, black knights or grave guard.
Even just saving 1 wound from all combats in 12 inches can really help. Consider all our models that may be going it alone, terrorgheist, wraiths, spirit hosts, varghulfs. If they lose combat they take one less wound and are that much liklier to still be alive.
Even just saving 1 wound from all combats in 12 inches can really help. Consider all our models that may be going it alone, terrorgheist, wraiths, spirit hosts, varghulfs. If they lose combat they take one less wound and are that much liklier to still be alive.
I've seen bsb's in Blood Knights. Three fewer crumble wounds if you take a standard bearer is nice. The problem is that it makes an already expensive unit suddenly cost even more. Be wary of units with a lot of static combat res and it's probably not even needed.
NicholasLeMort
Skeleton
Hmmm... you guys are changing my opinion.
Now I need to upgrade my death vamp in BKs to a BSB! I guess you could see it as a static +2 CR (1 for BSB, and 1 less crumble if you do lose). In addition I forgot that you can also ue it to reroll failed Frenzy tests, which is handy to have if you've got Vargheists playing a crucial role
Oh, and it also gives quite an edge in the Blood & Glory scenario.
Now I need to upgrade my death vamp in BKs to a BSB! I guess you could see it as a static +2 CR (1 for BSB, and 1 less crumble if you do lose). In addition I forgot that you can also ue it to reroll failed Frenzy tests, which is handy to have if you've got Vargheists playing a crucial role
Oh, and it also gives quite an edge in the Blood & Glory scenario.
Needed? Certainly not. Good buy for the points, though, and you should be looking to include it in your list if possible.
I never use a BSB - I don't think it's cost effective, but it wont make your list useless if you bring one.
Unstable is the bane of our army. Under the current summoning structure your better off trying to inflict wounds rather than prevent them through static combat resolution. The best tactic that has worked for me so far is pick a target and eliminate it. If your loosing models due to combat resolution one of two things has happened.
(1.) You had a miserable dice phase. ( had this happen vs empire 57 attacks across the board and did not roll a single dice above a 3 )
(2.) You did something wrong. ( unsupported attacks or did not soften your target unit enough before entering combat )
(3.) If you know a unit poses a considerable threat ("death star")just remove it from the equation by "tar pitting it" or re-directors.
To some up your question an ABS is not worth the points when weighed against what other units you could bring or increase in size for those same points. Examples include hexwraiths crypt-horrors or vargheists.
Hope this helps
(1.) You had a miserable dice phase. ( had this happen vs empire 57 attacks across the board and did not roll a single dice above a 3 )
(2.) You did something wrong. ( unsupported attacks or did not soften your target unit enough before entering combat )
(3.) If you know a unit poses a considerable threat ("death star")just remove it from the equation by "tar pitting it" or re-directors.
To some up your question an ABS is not worth the points when weighed against what other units you could bring or increase in size for those same points. Examples include hexwraiths crypt-horrors or vargheists.
Hope this helps
Aedin and Johnny hit the spot - I have dismissed BSB's for VC even without realising that they ALSO mean that you will lose more VP's if they die.
How are vampires fragile? Easy enough to have a t4, 2plus re reliable armour save character who can be healed. Or alternately a wight king with t5 and and 3 wounds. I think we have some of the toughest bsbs in the game. If you weren't going to take any vampires or wight kings then i wouldn't add one just to be a bsb but 25 points isn't much.
Your opponent only will get the points if the whole unit dies which if he is with grave guard or black knights means you have already been smashed most likely. So i wouldn't worry too much.
The other occasion you lose combat is when absorbing a charge and then flanking your opponent the next round of combat. Plus any chaff which is used to ta pit and slow the enemy will benefit from living longer.
Your opponent only will get the points if the whole unit dies which if he is with grave guard or black knights means you have already been smashed most likely. So i wouldn't worry too much.
The other occasion you lose combat is when absorbing a charge and then flanking your opponent the next round of combat. Plus any chaff which is used to ta pit and slow the enemy will benefit from living longer.
It's not about how much you can tool him up - it's about how many points those 2 Wounds are holding, and the fact that he simply doesn't have the power to shred whatever would dare come after him (unlike the big man). He will always be squishy because if you drop him you get a ton of VPs.
Also, T4 with a 2+ re-rollable is good, but not great (and not everyone goes the Dawnstone route). If at all possible, I would feel a lot more comfortable if the BSB is a Wight King.
Also, T4 with a 2+ re-rollable is good, but not great (and not everyone goes the Dawnstone route). If at all possible, I would feel a lot more comfortable if the BSB is a Wight King.
BSB's can be a great boon to Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths. Negating that one wound from a banner or additional rank can mean the difference between a speed bump or a game long tar put.
Also should you give your BSB's the flaming banner, you can use Shadow lore attribute to get that banner where you need it in a bind.
The latter example is situational at best, but they are definitely not necessary.
If you're using SH or HW, I would recommend it.
Also should you give your BSB's the flaming banner, you can use Shadow lore attribute to get that banner where you need it in a bind.
The latter example is situational at best, but they are definitely not necessary.
If you're using SH or HW, I would recommend it.
TK_
Zombie
Well, I usually use a WK BSB with a War Banner in my GG unit with the BotB, effectively giving them +3 static CR and the +1 to hit ... any thoughts on cost-effectiveness?
It generally does quite well, although my regular opponent plays Skaven, which I find a tough nut to crack somehow...
It generally does quite well, although my regular opponent plays Skaven, which I find a tough nut to crack somehow...
Well I think that it's a waste to try to give GG's good CR... they should produce that themselves by hacking their enemy to pieces.
Agreed - CR usually won't be the problem. Casualties might, as WS3 kind of gets them hit too much.
And yes, Narenzade, characters still cough up their points if the unit they have joined survives the combat and they do not. They are purchased as individual units at army list creation.
And yes, Narenzade, characters still cough up their points if the unit they have joined survives the combat and they do not. They are purchased as individual units at army list creation.