Whats so special about cairn wraiths? I dont get them, what does Ethereal actually do besides no movement penalties? Cant they just get shot or magiced down they have no save? And they have Great Weapons so they stike last in cmbat wont they just get killed in combat first by any unit? The Howl looks good but appart from that im lost. Anyone know? Gillie
Cairn Wraiths
- Thread starter gilliek
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Ethereal units cannot be harmed except by magical attacks, meaning they are immune to basically all Rank and File troops. That makes Cairn Wraiths so good because they can munch away at an enemy unit's flanks, with your skellies/zombies etc. in the front, and not fear any retribution short of a hero.
But combat rez will make short work of them.
So they are excellent warmachine hunters (not dwarf ones), but dont expect them to munch through a big unit of Empire swordsmen without failing combat rez a couple times. Because they skirmish they dont negate ranks, and they wont hit all their attacks all the time.
So they are excellent warmachine hunters (not dwarf ones), but dont expect them to munch through a big unit of Empire swordsmen without failing combat rez a couple times. Because they skirmish they dont negate ranks, and they wont hit all their attacks all the time.
gilliek said:
Well for starters they are ethereal, so are immune to being hurt by a vast chunk of things in the game. Off the top of my head they become a fantastic skirmish screen to protect your army with. Next add a sprinkle of Terror and skirmishers and you have a unit which can cover a large area and scare things off.
Yes they can suffer from combat res but then again this is a weakness all units can suffer from (Undead just suffer differently), so you just need to make sure that things are in your favour before you charge them in (or let them be charged).
Personally they are one of the best units in the book, but like all things you need to know where and when to use them. For example I wouldn't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail in.
Kaladas Harkon
Wight King
Yeah; only problem if you want to use them to tie up the enemy is you need to spend a bundle of extra points on getting them up to 5man, so you can negate ranks. That's what will really keep them alive (or dead).
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For a start they are cool.
Secondly they are very mobile (6" movement, ethereal and skirmishing), and if used correctly hard to kill. Ethereal and 2 wounds a piece means they can take some killing, as most things in the game (bar DoC) can't actually hurt them.
They also hit quite hard, having 3 attacks each at S5. If you use Vanhels (combat variant) and helm they will really eat through things.
Finally the Banshee. Yes she can fail to do damage sometimes, yet there are other times when one scream can wipe out a full unit of heavy cav. If that's a unit of Chaos Knights (who don't have the best Ld), you more than get her points back.
They are definitely worth it, you just need to be clever using them.
For a start they are cool.
Secondly they are very mobile (6" movement, ethereal and skirmishing), and if used correctly hard to kill. Ethereal and 2 wounds a piece means they can take some killing, as most things in the game (bar DoC) can't actually hurt them.
They also hit quite hard, having 3 attacks each at S5. If you use Vanhels (combat variant) and helm they will really eat through things.
Finally the Banshee. Yes she can fail to do damage sometimes, yet there are other times when one scream can wipe out a full unit of heavy cav. If that's a unit of Chaos Knights (who don't have the best Ld), you more than get her points back.
They are definitely worth it, you just need to be clever using them.
All good advice. I'd also slightly disagree with Samuel Fey, in that a 4 or 5 wraith unit can take on a full command and ranked unit front on and win, even more so if given helm support. To be fair, 5 wraiths cost alot more than a full ranked empire army unit, so should be able to beat them head on!
No vampire count army should ever be without one unit of ethereals (unless you are fighting demons). Most armies have little countermeasures vs. ethereal units, other then magic or heroes. These units force your opponent to deal with them from the start of the game. This will often result in the rest of your army having an easier time in regards to enemy magic and characters as he will direct those resources to deal with your wraiths. I have had wraiths tear through Chaos Warriors, Dark Elf Black Guard, Dark Elf Cold One Knights, Hydras, Saurus Warriors, Dragons, just about everything. Front, bad side, it makes no difference over the long haul. My enemies die and any losses to the wraiths can be made good. Eventually the unit breaks. However, these guys are best used on the flanks in support of other troops. Also, since they skirmish they give some protection vs. enemy fast cav, big monsters and flyers which get behind the lines. The only thing I would not charge them into is Chaos Knights, unless it was in the flank (never ever front or rear).
As for the banshee, when she works it is often spectacular. The chances of this happening are low, but everyone hates that ability so I play it every time. For real fun play two units of 5 with two banshees and scream in stereo sound for your enemies.
As for the banshee, when she works it is often spectacular. The chances of this happening are low, but everyone hates that ability so I play it every time. For real fun play two units of 5 with two banshees and scream in stereo sound for your enemies.
thanks for all the advice guys, we ended up playing only 1000 points and i dominated, i just danced around his units with my Wraiths and did the howl and he was never in line of sight to charge me. The howl is a bit too good haha even with elven leadership i still managed to cripple him. And i just used all my dispel dice on his Fury of Kane spell and allowed all other spell to go through, as he had no other maical attack (besides his noble) to kill them. Go the Wraiths!
Mr Nightwere
Necromancer
I'm planing to have my army mainly based around ethereal units. Filling out all my special unit choices with them, I don't fancy any of the other units, except grave guard so I might get one choice in, But ghosts all the way for me. I'm mainly basing my army around my lord who if I do him right, (which i will) he should look like an angle of death.
Wraith really sound great, I'm just debating how to get models for them other then the GW stock ones. I was think Empire Flagelants-whippy-end is neigh people whose name I cannot spell right now 
But if anyone has any other good ideas...
One of the great things about Vampires, using other people's "dead" stuff
But if anyone has any other good ideas...One of the great things about Vampires, using other people's "dead" stuff
I took some zombies with scythes and cloaked them in green stuff.
Of course, that did leave me terribly short of zombies...
Of course, that did leave me terribly short of zombies...
heh wraiths are the most awesome unit we have. i use them to go hunt characters out on their own like their general or casters. Take yesterday for example played ogre kingdoms and the OK player took his bruiser (general) pretty much straight at my wraiths dont know why but anyway on my turn moved to 8" and did the howl rolled double 6's and killed him haha
Here is a question I have been pondering. What number of Cairn Wraiths are you finding useful in your units. In a list I am getting ready to play, I am planning on using 4 wraiths and 1 banshee. I ran the numbers through my head and I think this is a good number compared to even 3 wraiths. Seems 4 can do a bit more.
Really, it depends what role you want your wraiths to play. A min sized unit with banshee can be good at running flanks, taking on support stuff, or even going after shooty elements. If you want them to engage fully ranked units head on then you'll probably want at least 4 with a banshee or 5 without. A unit designed to support your blocks with flank attacks could be as small as 3 or 5+.
Wraiths are great, as long as you don't ask them to do something that you have not designed the unit to do.
Wraiths are great, as long as you don't ask them to do something that you have not designed the unit to do.
I with Ergo on that. I have always followed the rule of 3 strong unit (inc Banshee) for flanking, hunting small targets etc, for a strong unit that can take on units by themselves I would always go a least 5+ to ensure they have enough wounds to soak up magical attacks and then dish some back. Just don't run them head first into units that could have decent CR or involve them in combats with core units if you can help it. The easy kill on them can mean some nasty crumbling wounds for you wraiths.
In my eyes they are the best rare slot we have. Every opponent (except for louzy daemons and WE) fear the hard because only characters with magic weapons can kill them. Even when he has enough heros with magical attacks I will be able to summon them back because I have a shitload of powerdice.
Disciple of Nagash said:
6-7 is the ideal size for killing things, any more and you are wasting points since front on a unit can only fit 7 against most units. And yes, charging ranked up units can work. In fact it works very well. They need a little support (Either the WS hat or Van Hels for the re-roll. Or both even) 18 attacks is nothing to sneeze at, and it amazing for killing their 'kill' unit, from swordsmasters to hydras.
Say you charge Swordsmasters. 18 attacks hitting on 3s from WS hat is 12 hits. Wounding on 2s from the GWs is 10 wounds, with no armour save. So you have 10 CR, and they have 5 max (3 Ranks, Outnumbering and a banner). Even with poor rolling you win.
A very nasty combo is to add a ethereal BSB vampire to the unit, with a magical banner. Warbanner for and extra CR, Hatred for well hatred, or even double US for an auto break from fear/terror. Makes for an amazing unit, that while being expensive, is very versatile. It can always march, reliably take ranked up units in the front with no other support, or just be a pain and scream/terror things.
Oracle said:
The VC book says that etheral vamps aren't allowed magic items - Banners of Snazziness like those you have mentioned are not allowed. All you can get is +1CR for having the BSB handy.
I run a unit of 5, and they seem to do pretty well when not being charged by Grail Knights.
Pietr Von Carstein
Varghulf
I thought they were categorized differently, since BSBs are allowed to take magical banners but not magical items.