Chaos Killing Tactics?

[Lord_Mortis]

Hey there guys,
I'm looking for any amount of tactics or builds that I could use against the new warriors of Chaos. I know they've just been updated with new slaughterous creations but surely someone has some advice?
Thanks!
~Mortis

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Besides terrorghiest? I would need to get a few games in with them first

 

[Melle]

You will see alot more multiwound units from the new WoC.
and chariots since they are now core. How to deal with it?
Not sure really

 

[Matt217th]

I've had a few games against them now with Empire and Vampire Counts.

1- New and nigh unkillable lord/hero build sheds some tears. High armour save with a 3++ save. Given an item or mark of tzeentch (ca not remember which) will allow to re rolls failed wards saves of 1. In my game today it survived a hell of a lot of punishment and murdered a great deal.

2- Marauders have disappeared, now come across fast cavalry and chariot core backed up by plenty of juggernoughts and another hard hitting unit (was chosen today).

3- Nurgle Lore looks decent, have a spell which can be a hex or augment to alter a units toughness and a further spell (in the daemons nurgle lore too) that forces you to take D6 str 5 hits (if memory serves) and you must pass a toughness test or take more hits. This continues until you pass a toughness test. So nice combo abilities.

4- The chariots are good, but like most chariots if unsupported or fail to break the enemy in turn one they become easy enough to deal with.

So how do people deal with a mass unit of juggernoughts that usually has a few units of marauder horsemen buzzing around to remove chaff? Its killed a vampire lord kitted out to blend on foot for the last few games no problem.

Ideas on dealing with the silly lord/hero build?

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

Well I can tell you my tactic- I will be picking up the new codex this weekend

But our answer to anything cruel and unusual is "Scream at it." Sooooo yeah. Also it looks like skullcrushers have magical attacks like chaos knights so they cannot be ghost-chaffed :/

 

[Yorga]

Well I can tell you my tactic- I will be picking up the new codex this weekend

But our answer to anything cruel and unusual is "Scream at it." Sooooo yeah. Also it looks like skullcrushers have magical attacks like chaos knights so they cannot be ghost-chaffed :/

And since the hellcannon's attacks and shots are demonic now...the spirit hosts cannot tie it up either. And our hexwraiths need to watch out.

 

[Lord_Mortis]

So for the high armor values I'm think VL with obsidian blade and red fury at least. And I'll fit my terrorgheist and banshee in there too. Any other suggestions?

 

[badfox7]

I went against a chaos army today with a demon prince of tzench that had a 2+ 3+ save, two giant blocks of warriors, a group of mauraders, a group of chosen, a group of knights, and a warshrine. All his infantry had halbreds. My vamp lord held the demon prince up for two turned in a challenge ( didn't have enough time to go past round 4 ) and it actually did a wound. What helped me was beguile, dearth magic, the other tricksters shard, and the screaming banner. My skeletons held up a group of his warriors for three turns with the screaming banner helping. We basically have to make lists to survive the chaos enough to get our screams in. Haha. But on a serious not things that potentially could help us out, in addition to double terrorgheists, are multiple charges on one unit with some heavy hitters to make them break from combat, flank, and rear charges, and redirectors. My vargulf and vargheists helped me out a lot with getting the flanks and rear charges and of course my terrorgheists did some damage. I could see lists relying on mindrazor working and of course screaming lists. In the end I lost, but I survived longer than I thought and dealt some decent damage and put up a decent fight. They are going to be a hard army to beat.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

My Tbat screamed two units of Crushers off the table in as many turns. They don't scare me. It's the Prince/Chimera spam that i'm worried about. Lots of Flying is a problem.

 

[midean]

I think the best answer we have for the Chimara is TG scream/banshee. I think it is only LD 4-5? So if not near his General 1 good scream should see it killed.

 

[The Sun King]

The new WoC army is very tanky(haven't played against them but watched them slaughter a DoC player a couple of days ago)... I would still bet on screams as they have high armor hich cost models and bad LD. Most things in the army is expensive so focus on collecting VPs by destroying one unit at a time. Just going into cc with the WoC army is auto-lose as I see it, so keep your distance. Also now that they don't reroll panic tests anymore trying to panic flanking units might work(unless they have mark of slaanesh). Haven't done the math but GG's could possibly do some damage to Chaos Warriors due to killing blow and high strength... should be backed up by Dual Engines though as they won't last long without them. Against Troll armies(of which I predict we'll gonna see alot) flaming is everything... Hexwraiths, Banner of Eternal Flame and Ruby Ring is some of out best options here.

 

[Aedin]

Im thinking dual mortis engine to give yourself some survivability. Even your ethereals end up with the 5+ regeneration such as hexwraiths.

Then cursed book and another wizard capable of casting doom and darkness with a vamp with the -1 ld blood ability. This will allow banshees and the engines to do good scream dmg.

This will be my first strategy against them.

 

[The Sun King]

Although I'm probably the number 1 Dual Engines fanboy on this hallowed site I think that if you want to scream at them better bring Double Gheist since they only have the Hell Cannon capable of shooting them down while a Dual Engine list is pretty stationary and wins by getting into cc... you don't want to go into cc with WoC. But both lists might work.

 

[Vipoid]

Terrorghiests seem mandatory against WoC. They're basically the only things likely to take down a daemon prince with any reliability. And, considering that WoC are an elite army; full of units with good armour saves, the terrorghiests should never be short of targets.

So for the high armor values I'm think VL with obsidian blade and red fury at least. And I'll fit my terrorgheist and banshee in there too. Any other suggestions?

Considering that WoC have a lot of units with 4-5 (or higher) toughness, I'd have thought Ogre Blade would be a better bet. -4 to armour saves should still remove the armour saves from most of their units, and I'd rather the lords got a 5+ or 6+ armour saves than risk wounding them on 4s or 5s. It's also 10pts cheaper, compared to Obsidian Blade.

 

[Aedin]

My thinking is -1 LD from a vamp blood ability and -3 LD from Doom and darkness makes the banshee scream just as powerful as a Terrorghiests and your not going to stop his army from getting into close combat so you need some staying power.

So 2 mortis engine scream and 3 more from banshees in a 2500pt list

 

[Vipoid]

My thinking is -1 LD from a vamp blood ability and -3 LD from Doom and darkness makes the banshee scream just as powerful as a Terrorghiests and your not going to stop his army from getting into close combat so you need some staying power.

Well, that assumes that

a) You can get the Vampire into a position where the daemon is in range of his aura.

b) You can get the banshees into position. Unlike terrorghiests, they can't fly (meaning they have much shorter movement, and can't hop over units). Also, they're far more vulnerable outside a unit, so will likely have to pick one unit to be in for protection.

c) You can get Doom and Darkness off. Well, you have to actually roll the spell (or spend quite a bit on magic, to make sure you get it). Since the DP is unbreakable, there's no reason to cast it on him, other than wanting to scream him to death. So, it seems very likely that your opponent will try to dispel such an obvious and dangerous threat.

So 2 mortis engine scream and 3 more from banshees in a 2500pt list

Why the Mortis Engines? Are they key to the above plan in some way?

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Anybody else wish the damned Moetis Engine had 3 Banshee screams since there are 3 Banshees flying around it? Then I'd be all "Bring it on, WoC!" and flip them the bird.

 

[The Sun King]

My thinking is -1 LD from a vamp blood ability and -3 LD from Doom and darkness makes the banshee scream just as powerful as a Terrorghiests and your not going to stop his army from getting into close combat so you need some staying power.

Well, that assumes that

a) You can get the Vampire into a position where the daemon is in range of his aura.

b) You can get the banshees into position. Unlike terrorghiests, they can't fly (meaning they have much shorter movement, and can't hop over units). Also, they're far more vulnerable outside a unit, so will likely have to pick one unit to be in for protection.

c) You can get Doom and Darkness off. Well, you have to actually roll the spell (or spend quite a bit on magic, to make sure you get it). Since the DP is unbreakable, there's no reason to cast it on him, other than wanting to scream him to death. So, it seems very likely that your opponent will try to dispel such an obvious and dangerous threat.

So 2 mortis engine scream and 3 more from banshees in a 2500pt list

Why the Mortis Engines? Are they key to the above plan in some way?

The ME's are good in the sense that they bolster the troops so we don't get obliterated immediatley in cc. Also... they scream. And yeah Adam I would looooove having three screams on each of my engines I think a price increase would be in place though if that was the case

Regarding using Doom and Darkness and AoDM in combination with Banshees it doesn't make them as good as TGs since the TG would benefit even more from screaming at something with DnD and AoDM on them. :konrad:

 

[Vipoid]

The ME's are good in the sense that they bolster the troops so we don't get obliterated immediatley in cc. Also... they scream. And yeah Adam I would looooove having three screams on each of my engines I think a price increase would be in place though if that was the case

Ah, yes, I had forgotten that they have banshee screams included.

Think I'd rather have terrorghiests if I was going scream-heavy though.

Doom & Darkness + Aura of Dark Majesty + Terrorghiest Scream = :grave:

 

[Lord_Mortis]

So, dual ME builds with terrorgheists and banshees everywhere and possibly giving the VL Skabscrath for extra screaminess. Possibly big magical things too.

Considering that WoC have a lot of units with 4-5 (or higher) toughness, I'd have thought Ogre Blade would be a better bet. -4 to armour saves should still remove the armour saves from most of their units, and I'd rather the lords got a 5+ or 6+ armour saves than risk wounding them on 4s or 5s. It's also 10pts cheaper, compared to Obsidian Blade.

Ogre Blade is 10 points dearer if my memory serves me but that's a good point, wound most, if not all, things on 2s would be fairly nice...

 

[Vipoid]

Ogre Blade is 10 points dearer if my memory serves me but that's a good point, wound most, if not all, things on 2s would be fairly nice...

I believe obsidian blade is 50pts (so 10pts more than ogre blade) - which is probably why so few people take it.

 

[Aedin]

Well no matter how you stack it the new chaos warriors are going to get into combat. The question is how are you going to survive when he touches you in that dirty place called combat resolution. Survivability is a concern against this army.Especially if he realizes how and when to apply combat resolution from his chariot support.

Also I don't have a problem running banshees outside of units.
1. they are heroes and benefit from the look out sir rule if the are within "3" of a unit.
2. If the opponent wants to waste power dice to toast a single banshee i say let them. Its better then toasting 25% plus of the models in my core block. Even then that banshee will have a 5+ regen save.

Another thing to consider to is Curse of Years. It works well against this army because you make them burn their dispel dice right off the bat to stop it or they have to burn power dice to dispel it the subsequent turn. Either way they are not going to allow this spell to gather strength while ignoring their armor saves.

Manfred makes perfect sense as well. He's guaranteed to have doom and darkness and curse of years and if you run 2 other necros you have a choice of having doom and darkness again or summon spam with your 5+ regens. Which if they decide to stop those spells what will they have left to stop the character sniping.

Don't get me wrong I'm a large fan of dual Terrorghiest lists but against this army I think engines make more sense.

 

[Yorga]

Well actually Banshees CAN hop over units since they're ethereal

I'm not aware of any rule that allows banshees to move through units.o.o As far as I know, only hex wraiths can do that.

 

[Bullhax]

Well actually Banshees CAN hop over units since they're ethereal

How do they do that? Ethereal rule makes you able to move through impassable terrain not units.. Only hexwraiths can do that on account of their special rules.

Both dual TG's and dual engine lists will be good choices against WoC, I haven't played the new book yet.. I have still to see how devastating the new monsters actually are on the battlefield.!

 

[The Sun King]

Yeah didn't read the rule simply made the mistake assuming that if you could move through impassable terrain you could move through units - sorry about that. I stand corrected.

So, dual ME builds with terrorgheists and banshees everywhere and possibly giving the VL Skabscrath for extra screaminess. Possibly big magical things too.

Unlesss you play 3k you can't fit Dual Engines and a Terrorgheist in the same army and if you want two of both you have to get even higher in points