Clarity on Charge movement

[pat@debrock.net]

During a battle yesterday a there was disagreement on a charge rule. The situations boiled down to where the charge could take place. It was my belief that all you needed to do was clip a unit to engage in CC. Once you touched that unit then you slid your units together to maximize base to base contact. My opponent said no, I had to maximize contact when I charge. So I could not hit the corner but instead hit a point to maximize contact between his two ranks of Ogres.

I have attached some drawings to better explain. Panel 1 you see the setup. In this case the GG are just past the front rank of Ogre so they can't make a frontal charge. However the mortis engine is on the left such that I can't just wheel because my last rank of GG would hit mortis engine.

Panel 2 shows my move where the GG go up until they clear the mortis engine then wheel to complete charge. I clip the back corner of the Ogre.

Panel 3 once I touch I then slide my unit to maximize contact on flank

Panel 4 is what my opponents view. He said my forward progress had to stop short so that when I wheeled my GG would come in contact with "Maximum Enemy Unit" both front and second rank. I would then close the door. That move would not give my GG enough clearance around the Mortis and a failed charge.

He is referencing page 20 of the Warhammer manual for his move.

Can you help me to understand which is correct?

Patrick

 

[pat@debrock.net]

Thanks for any help

 

[Mad 'At]

Non of you are right.

Your opponent is right in that you do not slide the unit to maximise figures in contact. But He is wrong in that the charge would have failed, you could still have charged, but only one ogre would be in contact with you. In other words, close the door in panel two and stop there.

You have to bring as many models into contact as possible, but it is okay not to reach the theoretical maximum is it just isn't possible.

 

[SnEaKyGiT]

also may help to remember you can come closer than 1" of another unit when you charge, so you can wheel closer to the mortis if needed.

 

[midean]

And another thing there is NO such maneuvre/rule as sliding....... You can do a combat reform at the end of combat to bring more models into the engagement.

 

[bigbadbat]

NO sliding! That is what the free wheel is for on your charge move, to line up maximization.
On a dual charge, you must maximize. This could mean one model "hanging over his edge" which would leave you room for another charge. This can be tricky though as you only get the one free wheel and must close the.door too.

 

[Noobafrass]

So....you attempt to maximize models with your wheel, but if you don't have the movement to do so, you take what you can get?

 

[bigbadbat]

Movement should be a no brainer. You measure before you roll your charge dice and determine what is necessary to make it. If you roll high enough, you're there. You get a free wheel, up to 90 degrees I believe to maximize btb contact. Once you make contact, you close the door, which is also free movement.

 

[pat@debrock.net]

Okay

Thanks for the responses, but need to have clarity on one thing

I could make my charge it sounds like as I show in panel 2. However, I would just line up maximum coverage with row 2 only. Instead of "sliding" over to cover row 1 and 2 the GG would just be lined up to maximize with row two.

That being the case then I would be in corner to corner contact with row 1 anyway, correct? So the Vamp (front row right corner) would be able to address attacks to front row due to corner to corner contact.

sorry just want to understand because we always played based on "maximize base to base" that when you reached and enemy you would "slide" the attacking unit to cover as many enemy as possible. Just want to clearly correct this understanding.

Thanks again

 

[bigbadbat]

It's hard to tell from your panels.
Where did the GG unit start in relation to Ogre unit?
Remember that what facing you charge is dictated by majority sight arc of unit being charged(ogres) if you are in flank, you must charge flank.
From the looks of it, you would get contact from corner of unit somewhere between rank 1 and 2 of ogres, you would then wheel to "close the door".
It appears the vamp, and any other GG in base contact along with supporting attacks would be able to attack the ogres.
On a side note, you cannot attack rows, files, or ranks. Any model in base contact with the "unit" may attack the "unit". If a model is only in btb with a char or champion, they may only attack that model. If a model is in contact with the unit and a character or champion, you may allocate as you see fit.
Hope this helps!

 

[xFallenx]

The group I played with was doing the same thing you mentioned about sliding units around. But I typed out the following to break that bad habbit.
Maybe it'll help in your group as well:

Charge Sequence:
1) Declare Charges
a) i)Declare 1st unit;
ii)Reaction;
iii)Resolve Reaction (SnS/Flee)
iiii) subsequent movement/reactions caused by the resolution(fleeing through a unit/panic tests etc.)

b) Declair charge from 2nd unit if applicable(If not go to step 2);
ii)Reaction;
iii)Resolve Reaction (SnS/Flee)
iiii) subsequent movement/reactions caused by the resolution(fleeing through a unit/panic tests etc.)

c) Declair 3rd unit if applicable (If not go to step 2);
ii)Reaction;
iii)Resolve Reaction (SnS/Flee)
iiii) subsequent movement/reactions caused by the resolution(fleeing through a unit/panic tests etc.)

2) Charge Resolution
i) Frenzy LD tests/charges are taken at this point.
ii) Charger Redirects(from flee reaction) on a unit by unit basis.
iii) Pick a unit(any) Roll to get into combat.(Failed charges, if any are resolved)

3) Maximizing Models in BtB
i) Move Directly forward/permitted to make 1 free(up to 90) wheel.
ii) Contact the enemy unit(make the ‘close the door’ wheel) maximizing the models in contact. (May not use any of the 'free wheel's to minimize models in contact)
iii) The “unusual situations”(pg22) gives an example of the only time a charged unit moves to accommodate combat.

 

[eggsPR]

Non of you are right.

Your opponent is right in that you do not slide the unit to maximise figures in contact. But He is wrong in that the charge would have failed, you could still have charged, but only one ogre would be in contact with you. In other words, close the door in panel two and stop there.

You have to bring as many models into contact as possible, but it is okay not to reach the theoretical maximum is it just isn't possible.

+1

You can have a charge where 2 horded units only have 1 model in BTB contact with 1 model in the other unit, but it's legal.

There are many ppl don't know how to move in Warhammer

Before any movement mark the back corner of the unit being moved with a dice. Then u know where everything was if u need to out things back.

 

[xFallenx]

Before any movement mark the back corner of the unit being moved with a dice. Then u know where everything was if u need to put things back.

I saw this being done at the Blood on the snow tourney this weekend, maybe it was your table I stopped by?

 

[eggsPR]

I didn't play that tourny, but there was certainly blood on my snow bases this weekend from Serbian Saurkraut